Kairos Fateweaver and Heldrake

Timatron I'm intrigued - what page is the 6" coherancy?! Thats an awesome rule for us!

Edit: (stupid phone) sadly I've not faced Hell Drakes but it would seem to be that you should aim to minimise its impact rather than necessarily focusing on killing the thing off (sounds like you were unlucky with the it-will-not-die rolls) as it isn't scoring after all. Kairos sounds like a serious pain but to pass all those grounding tests was jammy - I would imagine its a case of trying to pump as many splinter cannon shots into the creep as possible...

dangerous beans wrote:

Timatron I'm intrigued - what page is the 6" coherancy?! Thats an awesome rule for us!

Page 98. It applies to models on different levels (in a ruin with more than one level, obvs.) It wouldn't matter to flamer weapons since they can only affect one level anyway, whether the guy below is 6" or 1" away.

dangerous beans wrote:

Edit: (stupid phone) sadly I've not faced Hell Drakes but it would seem to be that you should aim to minimise its impact rather than necessarily focusing on killing the thing off (sounds like you were unlucky with the it-will-not-die rolls) as it isn't scoring after all.

Um, no, there were no it-will-not-die rolls, I never even had a chance to shoot at it. I focused on killing the chaos army, which I very nearly did. In the end, he only had 2 space meringues left, the tzeentch chariot (it stayed hidden in his deployment zone and I forgot it was there!), Kairos, and the Heldrake.

In turns 4 and 5, Kairos and the Heldrake killed a Raider, 5 wyches, 5 wracks, 3 windrider jetbikes, 10 kabalite warriors, and another 10 kabalite warriors, none of which were even close together. The two space meringues stand on an objective -- and game over, I lost.

The way that the 6" coherency benefits in this situation is by making it easy to ensure that only a couple, maybe 3 of your guys can be under the template at any one time, especially on a 3 level ruin. This has helped me minimize the damage inflicted by Heldrakes on many occasions. I also try to make sure that I use a unit of Wracks to camp on any objectives in ruins late in the game as their T4 helps by enabling them to make their FNP rolls.

Sorry, I still don't understand. If you have 10 guys on a 3 level ruin, you'd have 3 on the top floor, 3 on the middle one, and 4 on the ground, so regardless of how close they were, you could only catch 3 or 4 with the template (either the 3 on top, the 3 in the middle, or the 4 on the ground), right?

Do you mean that you could have, say, 2 on the top level, then another 2 6" away below them, and then another 2 6" above them, and so on?

Yes that's correct..a template can only hit one level.

As for the Razorwing..I always play a all comers list and it's in it..ALWAYS.
I find the RW can hold it's own against just about anything.
With nightshields and a flickerfield it's durable.
2 Lances,SC and 4 FREE missiles it puts out nicely.
It's all about placement when you come in..keep yourself away from the interceptor units(Tau looking at you!).
I find a lot of people don't bring AA fire..they save the points for other units.
This is a noticeable trend.
A chaos type list will ALWAYS have a Helldrake,it's a great weapon that works against just about anything.
Ageis defense lines are ok for the cover,but the quad gun can only intercept 1 target coming in.
But they die just like any other unit.
Yes you have to wait until the RW comes in..but once in it makes your opponent think about keeping his air units alive.

You have to THINK when you use the RW..yes it's fragile but everything in our army is.

Denizen in the Dark wrote:

Yes you have to wait until the RW comes in..but once in it makes your opponent think about keeping his air units alive.

That's the problem in my experience. Opponents either destroy it immediately or ignore it knowing that it's no real threat to them.

In a tournament I faced a potentially nasty SM list with 4 Contemptor Dreadnoughts in it. I had 2 Razorwings with one having Disintegrators. They pretty much occupied the Dreads by causing them to use their interceptor and preventing them from decimating my ground troops and removing all my mobility. I don't actually think they can be ignored, if you give them free reign they will cause a decent amount of carnage.
I won that game convincingly, one sniper-born team of 3 accounting for 2 Dreads.

Epilogue: So, today I saw the same Chaos player, and we got to talking together with an Eldar player, and the following exchange took place:

Eldar Player: 'Why didn't you shoot Kairos Fateweaver with the Aegis quad gun?'

Me:  'I did, and I even got three wounds on him, but it wasn't very helpful because it only wounds him on 5+'s'

Eldar Player: '5+? That doesn't sound right, what Toughness is he?'

Chaos Player: 'He's Toughness 5.'

Me: 'What? You told me I needed to roll 5's to wound!'

Chaos Player: 'No, no. I said that he was T5. I even said it twice -- or three times, I think.'

Me: 'You watched me make my rolls to wound and remove anything that wasn't a five or a six!'

Chaos Player: 'Did I? Oh well.'

Would it have made a difference? Without Kairos, I would've still had my reaver jetbikes, wyches, and one squad of kabalite warriors, two of whom were scoring troops, AND the wyches would've had two turns of shooting to try to bring down the Heldrake with the quad gun. And Kairos had three wounds on him as it was, even though I was rolling to wound him on a 5+ with the quad gun when the actual roll needed was 2+.

Grrrrr!   

This is why it helps to know the others codex and check it yourself. The Chaos player does need to get hit really hard for the unsportsmenlike conduct.

That's a pretty scummy move on his part. Sorry to hear he played you like that.   The old saying "know thy enemy" applies here. If you have a good knowledge of what every codex can do it's harder for people to pull crap like that. That being said, getting a copy of every codex so you can read it can get pricy...

Its easier to just say"what his toughness?"

Buying a codex for each army is all well and good but what are you going to lug them around?

LOL!

Or memorize them?

I always ask what the toughness/armor value is.

Like someone else said it was a cheap move on his part..I bet he wont get it by you again.

Denizen in the Dark wrote:

Its easier to just say"what his toughness?"

As I remember it, I rolled to hit the first time and he said, 'Okay, now you need fives,' without being prompted, and I didn't think to question it. Why would I?

Welp, just ask people next time. I know seems annoying but still.

Brütal dude, sorry to hear that! I swear not all CSM players are as awful. That would have made a huge difference in how your match turned out.
The Tyranid guy I beat in my last batrep is like that too; only way I've found to deal with it is to straight up ask him to show you all the stats from his codex as he calls 'em out.

Doing this meant his hive guard DIDN'T actually have 48" range, his 'gants DIDN'T have 2 wounds each, his zoanthropes DIDN'T have 36" range, his Hive Tyrant DIDN'T have a 4++, and his Tyrannofex's Rupture Cannon WASN'T AP 2.
Some people...

I seem to recall too Laughingcarp that your nid opponent was considered to be 'experienced' - I'd assume that means he knew the stats!

Gutted for you Agatha - challenge him to a rematch and try to put into practise everything thats been learnt and then pop back here to let us know how it went? Frankly I'm keen to see you stomp this guy into the ground!