500 points of Haemonculus (beginner list)

Hi guys
so here is a list that I make for a 500 point games.Mainly aiming to play Haemonculus theme but comments and critics are welcomed!

HQ:
Haemonculus Ancient (125)
Flesh Gauntlet,Soul Trap,Scissorshand

Elite:
3 Grotesques (165)
Raider

Troops:
4 Wracks (105)
Venom,2 Splinter cannon

4 Wracks (105)
Venom,2 Splinter cannon

Thanks guys!

Hi,

I'm a beginner, so I could easily be wrong, but I think you spend too much points on your HQ for a 500 pts list. Also the Ancient is not a monster like an Archon could be.

With the saved points maybe you can add a 5th wrack to get a liquifier, they are fun to use.

And even if it's only 500 pts, you dont have a lot of tools to deal with vehicles (other than furious charge grots).

Mononcule is quite right although at 500pts you won't have to deal with many tanks I think a talos would probably be better than grots as most 500pt armies won't have anything to challenge him.

I would cut back on your haemonculus to basic with a liquifier and either sissorshands or flesh gauntlets so something like:

haemonculus liquifier, sissorhands-75

5 wracks liquifier, splinter cannon venom-125

4 wracks, splinter cannon venom-105

7 wracks liquifier-75

talos chain-flails-110

This comes to 490 so you have ten points left for whatever upgrades you want. The general idea is the 7 man unit camps on the home objectives. then the two venom units ant the talos charge up the board, the talos to hit the one tough unit they are lightly to have or mash through the HQ. The two venom units capture objectives.

Hope this helps.

I agree with both of the above on the tank and HQ issues. You do have a lack of anti tank and you also have a surplus of points in your HQ.

I'm...pretty neutral on Billy's solution for you. By taking away the Grots and adding a Talos he basically took your anti tank option away...to give you an anti tank option. It's especially jarring for me because I, frankly, think (especially at 500) that the Grots are overall better for the list since they are also anti-tank and basically do everything the Talos can do only they do it better for the most part.

That said, his list does have some more balance to it, which isn't bad.
I would suggest that your initial list would totally table his suggested list quite easily though.
Of course that's part of why 500 points is such an interesting game, because it's quite hard to do a solid TAC build.

I would probably go with your initial list and trim back the Haem to boost your other units (Liquifiers really are a good option, and honestly I may try to pack in an additional Raider instead of the double Venoms). Your initial list is also a pretty nice starting point building towards the more commonly accepted 'decent' Coven builds. And, really, that may be something for you to consider - build the 1500 or 1850 or 2000 point army you'd like to eventually have, and make sure your 500 point build has the same models you'll be using later.

Sorry, I just really like Talos and I don't think in 500pt games people won't really have the weapons to really deal with the Talos as appose to the Grots unless they wanted to fire their antitank at it instead of at your venoms which would let your wracks wreck havoc in his army line.

I would like to see your suggested list though Thor, it will more insightful than mine as it's quickly done and created around the idea of a balanced list.

Billy912 wrote:

Sorry, I just really like Talos and I don't think in 500pt games people won't really have the weapons to really deal with the Talos as appose to the Grots unless they wanted to fire their antitank at it instead of at your  venoms which would let your wracks wreck havoc in his army line.

Well, it depends on what you expect to see for his anti-tank. Functionally a bolter is anti-tank versus a Venon, with a Heavy Bolter or Autocannon being a pretty good way to drop us rather quickly.

Also, with the speed of the Talos, he could pretty easily focus fire on the vehicles first, and then worry about the Talos later.

It's an interesting idea to suggest that an army might have a way to dealw ith the Grots but not the Talos. The only real firepower difference for the Grots is that they are suceptible (like our mech) to Str 4 shooting, which the Talos is not. Beyond that, on average, the Talos is pretty much vulnerable to all the same stuff the Grots are, and in some cases more because he works off an armor save and they function off an FNP save, which means certain things capable of ending his day badly don't sweat the Grots much at all. (a las pred could fire on Grots all day and they'll walk up and smash him, whereas a Talos could go down fairly quickly)

I think something like the Talos works great for armies that can spam AV 12, because at that stage the tools you would want to deal with AV 12 are *exactly* the same tools you'd want to deal with a Talos and vice versa, making the use of them in one area a weakening in the other. The problem for the DE is they operate AV 10 open topped, which...has different weaknesses than AV 12 or T7.

Now, the Talos *will* be a pretty potent issue to a list that doesn't have any tools to handle a T7 creature (a list based around slow/static units with nothing stronger than Str 6 shooting, and not much of that) the thing is, I think that sort of list would also have issues dealing with the Grots as well, and the Grots have the advantage of being quicker to get into the fight, and also looking to expand a list towards 1500+ I think Grots have more purpose in a Coven build, as the Talos' value decreases as points go up and it's more and more likely the foe will have the means to kill/avoid/kill and avoid it.

That's the only call I'm really making on that issue.

Billy912 wrote:

I would like to see your suggested list though Thor, it will more insightful than mine as it's quickly done and created around the idea of a balanced list.

I didn't make a suggested list, I never really do. I only talk about my thoughts as concerns a given list because my hope is to get them thinking about what they're taking for their list and why and to understand the concepts there so they can make their own lists. Also, I'm lazy

Hi guys!
Thanks for replying to my thread,sorry for the late reply I haven't checked the forums lately.
So basicly from the replies that I get,Grots in 500 point games is really hard to fit too with their points cost,but with their T5 and W3 that will make my opponents scream! But I think adding a Ravager will be an alternate option to the grots.

You'd probably want to add a bigger pile of Wracks for the Haem to ride with, but certainly a Ravager is a solid tool at 500.

Ok cool,Thanks thor! Gonna test the list out once my OOP models arrive!

If you wanted you could fit 2 ravagers a homo and 2 units of 3 wracks in venoms at 500 on the dot with upgrade if I remember right