Kabal Player working on a 1850 coven list. Thoughts appreciated!

Hey all,


I've had a lot of success with my kabal lists the last 3 months, including winning a tourney! I kinda wanna try a fluffy coven list, but still am wondering if it'd be semi competitive? For reference, here's my old kabal tourney winning list:


HQ:

Vect



Troops:
10 Warriors, splinter cannon; Raider
10 Warriors, splinter cannon; Raider
10 Warriors, splinter cannon; Raider
10 Warriors, splinter cannon; Raider
5 Warriors, Blaster; Venom
5 Warriors, Blaster; Venom

Elites:
3 Trueborn, dual splinter cannons; Venom
3 Trueborn, dual splinter cannons; Venom
3 Trueborn, dual splinter cannons; Venom


Transports:

4 Raiders w/ splinter racks
5 venoms w/ dual splinter cannon


Heavy support:

3 Ravagers w/ triple Dark Lance



Here's the new list I'm considering:

HQ:

Urien Rackarth

Baron Sathonyx




Troops:
5 Wracks, liquifier ; Venom
5 Wracks, liquifier ; Venom
5 Wracks, liquifier ; Venom
5 Wracks, liquifier ; Venom
5 Wracks, liquifier ; Venom
5 Wracks, liquifier ; Venom

Elites:
3 grotesques, super charged by urien; Raider

Fast Attack:
5 beastmasters
6 Razorwing flocks
9 khymerae

Transports:
Raider, flicker fields, aeither sails
6x Venoms w/ dual splinter cannons


Heavy Support:
Ravager, Triple Dark Lance, night shields, flicker fields
Ravager, Triple Dark Lance, night shields, flicker fields
Ravager, Triple Dark Lance, night shields, flicker fields


Basically let the venoms chew infantry, along with the liquifiers on the wracks. Have the raider and the 3 Ravagers deal with tanks, and the grotesques will be in a deathstar w/ urien inside the raider. Baron rolls with the beast pack.

Could this be roughly as good as my Kabal list? Does it look solid? Also, definitely open to suggestions! Thanks in advance guys!

the list should run fine. The only units that I have issue with would be Urien and the Grots. I love Grots; absolutely loves me some Grots, but I think you would be better served taking a regular Haemi and an archon to escort the Grotesques. Three Grotesques and Urien just doesn't have enough punch to do what you are looking to have them do (Beaststar and Grot meatwagon). You probably could work a 4th Grotesque in there as well with a bit of tweaking to make the unit much more effective.

Just one guy's opinion.

Thanks for the feedback! With a fourth grot, would you keep urien? Kinda like him for fluff reasons. How would you kit out a regular homunculus?

Also, i could cut the baron, and add another homunculus and a 4th grot with those points

I keep Haemi's cheap with a venom blade and liquifier. I would drop Urien to help get an Archon or cheap Succubus in that unit. To pay for the fourth Grotesque I would probably shave a model or two off the Beaststar.

Evil Space Elves wrote:

I keep Haemi's cheap with a venom blade and liquifier. I would drop Urien to help get an Archon or cheap Succubus in that unit. To pay for the fourth Grotesque I would probably shave a model or two off the Beaststar.

I understand archons are better with grots than Urien. However, my kabal list is my tourney / competitive list. I am building this coven list for fluff, so I'd be hard pressed to get rid of Urien, at least without subbing a haemunculus for him. My warlord must be a haemy or Urien. I do want this to be decent, but straight up winning games isn't my sole intention with this list.

Let me try to revise a list getting a fourth grot in there. Again, I'd love thoughts on this list! Thanks!

Updated list:

HQ:

Urien Rakarth

Baron Sathonyx


Troops:

5 Wracks w/ liquifier; Venom
5 Wracks w/ liquifier; Venom
5 Wracks w/ liquifier; Venom
5 Wracks w/ liquifier; Venom
5 Wracks w/ liquifier; Venom
5 Wracks w/ liquifier; Venom

Elites:

4 Uber Grotesques

Fast Attack:
5 Beast Masters
6 Razorwing flocks
8 Khymerae

Transports:

Raider, flicker fields, dark lance
6 Venoms w/ Dual splinter Cannons

Heavy Support:

Ravager, flicker fields, triple Dark Lance
Ravager, flicker fields, triple Dark Lance
Ravager, flicker fields, triple Dark Lance

Oops, forgot about the fluffy angle. This updated listed is where it's at!
puts mod hat on
Oh, and I merged that double-post for ya'
takes mod hat back off

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Oops, forgot about the fluffy angle. This updated listed is where it's at!
puts mod hat on
Oh, and I merged that double-post for ya'
takes mod hat back off

Thanks man! Didn't mean to break the rules... In your opinion, from a fluff angle, is it okay for wracks to ride in venoms?

Its a pretty good list, however you do loose the 4+ steal. The one issue is that I see that you will have to deal with, and this is pervasive of any CC list, is getting your guys there without getting smashed. 5 man wracks, even with FNP are going to be fairly easy to wipe out. I find that they really need to be in raiders at 10 man strength. That or you need a serious fire magnet that can soak up wounds.

I love the concept, and think a good player can do work with it and if you are a good painter will look even better. But you have to ask yourself, how many venoms can your list dump turn one. What changes things is that you are moving forward to get the CC machine in place. If I where you I might be inclined to take Eldar allies. The beast pack with fortune is pure win, and will do alot to getting everyone in the other guys face. He will either have to deal with the pack or find out why its winning tourneys. That being said, Hammer and Anvil sucks.....bad. The game against a Tau/Tigirious list in HandA will be a tough win.

You are winning tourneys, so you got the skills no doubt. I absolutley understand the desire to play a CC army, its plain fun. I know that he is mad points for the list you already have, but I might be inclined to dump the raider, beastpack and barron for Vect and his Dias. Maybe even downgrade Uk to a Haemy.

Few reasons for this (Its a list I have been thinking about coincidentally):
Steal on a 4+, as you know this alone can really win games.
13/13/13 skimmers are not anything anyone plans for.
Vect DESTROYS in CC....I cant imagine him with a Meatwagon; ok I can and it dose things to my pants.
The Dias gives you a forth ravanger's firepower.

The main thing is that it allows you to get into peoples faces. Not sure if that would be to vast a departure from your original list.

With the right terrain you can do pretty good with it as it stands, but the barren table (and who hasnt had one at a tourney) is going to push you out of top contention. But if you are looking for fun and a challenge, I so go for it.

Hannibal.Lictor wrote:

Its a pretty good list, however you do loose the 4+ steal. The one issue is that I see that you will have to deal with, and this is pervasive of any CC list, is getting your guys there without getting smashed. 5 man wracks, even with FNP are going to be fairly easy to wipe out. I find that they really need to be in raiders at 10 man strength. That or you need a serious fire magnet that can soak up wounds.

I love the concept, and think a good player can do work with it and if you are a good painter will look even better. But you have to ask yourself, how many venoms can your list dump turn one. What changes things is that you are moving forward to get the CC machine in place. If I where you I might be inclined to take Eldar allies. The beast pack with fortune is pure win, and will do alot to getting everyone in the other guys face. He will either have to deal with the pack or find out why its winning tourneys. That being said, Hammer and Anvil sucks.....bad. The game against a Tau/Tigirious list in HandA will be a tough win.

You are winning tourneys, so you got the skills no doubt. I absolutley understand the desire to play a CC army, its plain fun. I know that he is mad points for the list you already have, but I might be inclined to dump the raider, beastpack and barron for Vect and his Dias. Maybe even downgrade Uk to a Haemy.

Few reasons for this (Its a list I have been thinking about coincidentally):
Steal on a 4+, as you know this alone can really win games.
13/13/13 skimmers are not anything anyone plans for.
Vect DESTROYS in CC....I cant imagine him with a Meatwagon; ok I can and it dose things to my pants.
The Dias gives you a forth ravanger's firepower.

The main thing is that it allows you to get into peoples faces. Not sure if that would be to vast a departure from your original list.

With the right terrain you can do pretty good with it as it stands, but the barren table (and who hasnt had one at a tourney) is going to push you out of top contention. But if you are looking for fun and a challenge, I so go for it.

I appreciate the thoughts, this is really just my casual league night / game night / beerhammer army. I love the fluff of covens and I've been watching Urien sit in his blister for too long.

At tourneys I intend on continuing to bring my Vect's Kabal list and so far in the few tourney's I've been to, they've been around 30 people and I've finished: 1st, 3rd, and 7th. All pretty satisfying results for decent sized events.

I understand your thoughts about the wracks being squishy, and I don't argue that. My counter to that however is a few things:

Target saturation: They've got a raider with Urien and grots to consider worrying about. As well as a beast pack and three ravagers. That's a lot to choose from before even considering all the venoms, which leads me to my next point.

Redundancy: 6 Venoms, with wracks in liquifiers. Also, 3 ravagers. That's a lot of consistency. If the wracks are shot out of the venom, they can mosey on to an objective and try to go to ground and hold it. In area terrain, they're looking at 3+ cover with FnP. I usually put my objectives in the middle of the table and control the board with my skimmers.

On going first: I know the Baron isn't nearly as effective as ensuring first turn as vect is, but here's how I feel on this matter. Having a +1 modifier to my roll of going first is surely a slight edge in that favor, and I've also built this list to not necessarily NEED the alpha strike as my kabal list that I displayed above with vect. That list has squishy troops and is set up to go first turn with all the splinter cannons. This list definitely has splinter cannon support, but I think it's resilient enough to be able to endure getting shot at first, with the right counter deployment.


All in all, I do want this to do well, as none of us play this game with the intention of losing. That doesn't make us WAAC, it makes us human, as in my opinion, it's human nature to want to win. However, this is for fun with friends, playing to have fun and drink some beers and have some nifty models on the table.

Did my counter thoughts maybe help you shift your paradigm, or at least understand my perspective? Thanks!