Beaststar for 7th Edition

An excellent review Adhemar! Thank you.

Zenotaph wrote:

What bothers me a little, is, that you have to use some characters.
Isn't there a way to go without the baron  and the farseer?

If you really want to do it without the characters it is possible.

Firstly take about 3 or so skimmers with the upgrade that allows nearby units to reroll morale. I don't have my book with me. Maybe I'm just lucky but I have never failed a morale 8 reroll that I couldn't rally from and still cause my opponent a headache.

Secondly don't expect them to win you the game. Run them at the enemy screaming SHOOT ME!!!
The rest of your army is now free to cause havoc. if your BMs actually kill anything its a bonus!

More, like I would use it. Mobile distraction with teeth.

If you cut out the characters and just rely on the beasts themselves it's still a pretty expensive unit but nowhere near as effective. Not to say that it won't work though!

Note - I've added a section on Clawed Fiends to the original post. I'll work through the other comments and edit as appropriate in due course.

Beasts are probably the last deathstar that is still tournament viable (although other new stars might arise). No 'need' for psych powers, massive footprint, innate invuln saves, speed all contribute. A full pack really increases the survivability of other units and works as a delivery system for combat characters. Their presence makes a fragile MSU army like ours MUCH stronger I feel.
The versions I gravitate towards eschew psych for more hitting power. Sure the unit can be destroyed and often will be but at the expense of leaving everything else mostly untouched and not before they have impacted the board state. Having a 2+ eternal warrior at the forefront is key to the strategy though IMO, especially with the rise of barrage and the changes to shooting into ruins and how challenge wounds spill over now.

I agree though you cannot cut characters. The beasts are basically faster cybork ork boys. They need a heavy lifter or double psykers. I prefer the former, its less luck dependent and more threatening in combat at the expense of survivability. Plus 7th has brought meq back with a vengeance. Hordes of marines combat squading out of rhinos is a serious build now and one which combat characters shine against.
Of course you could always do both but the cost is no longer worthwhile. I think a haemie to start with FNP is nearly as good as psych anyway (considering costs and randomness of psykers that is) simply because its a given and pushes your opponent to dedicate S6+ to the pack which is exactly what I want leaving my skimmers untouched.

Only beastmasters and Baron will benefit from the Haemonculus gift so why bother?

Korwey wrote:

Only beastmasters and Baron will benefit from the Haemonculus gift so why bother?

Read the Power from Pain section of the original post.

From our last FAQ:

Quote :

Q: When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain and
some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to every
model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from Pain special
rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

But 'fearless' should affect the hole unit.

Korwey wrote:

From our last FAQ:

Quote :

Q: When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain and
some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to every
model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from Pain special
rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

From our current FAQ:

Quote :

...erm....nothing really

Count Adhemar wrote:

Korwey wrote:

From our last FAQ:

Quote :

Q: When a unit comprised of some models with Power from Pain and
some without has a pain token, does the effect it gives apply to every
model in the unit or just to the models with the Power from Pain special
rule? (p25)
A: It only applies to the models with the Power from Pain
special rule.

From our current FAQ:

Quote :

...erm....nothing really

Exactly. The old faq is as relevant as the old rulebook. Now the only source on the subject is our codex language which states "each pain token confers a special rule to the entire unit".

You're right, I opened the wrong file (6ed instead of 7ed FAQ) I guess I'll have to take Haemy back to my list then:)

As I mentioned in the article, don't expect it to last but RAW that is 100% correct as it stands now.

Thank you for finally giving me an understanding of beaststar, I'll be converting my beastmasters soon so perfect timing.

So, against psyker heavy armies, can we make Beaststar which doesnt need Farseers and powers?
Phoenix Lords give fearless, Baharroth is jump infantry so he can keep with beasts. He also has hit&run, so only benefit from Baron is PGL. Karandras has a big punch but 230 points is a lot.

Personally I'm not keen on Phoenix Lords. They're all way too expensive and anyone other than Baharroth slows the unit down. Plus none of them can duplicate the Baron's PGL or the Farseer's ability to get rerollable misses and/or saves.

I've been very busy this week but I'll try to get round to updating the original article next week.

I think it may be worth adding that most players in the UK competitive scene in the last year have been running only Khymerae, usually 20-25, omitting Flocks entirely. This is due to area denial.

You could say this build is more successful with an Eldar primary and some are adding Eldrad to the mix too.

I'll be adding a section on alternative builds/ special characters etc plus trying to incorporate some of the other comments that have been left. Probably finish just in time to have a new codex completely invalidate the whole build!!

Count Adhemar wrote:

I'll be adding a section on alternative builds/ special characters etc plus trying to incorporate some of the other comments that have been left. Probably finish just in time to have a new codex completely invalidate the whole build!!

This is actually something that I've been struggling with. There are tons of models I'd like to buy/paint for lists that I've made, but I'm hesitant to spend all that money and time, only to have everything switched around on me at the release of the new codex.

I was considering doing a big beaststar(25 Kymarae) with the baron, 1 farseer and 5 spiritseers, having the farseer go for fortune/invis, and having the spiritseers go for hammerhand/invis. All those kymarae attacking at S6 would be brutal. The extra kymarae, along with the beastmasters will allow the unit to stretch out so that the front line isn't slowed down much by the footslogging psykers. Just initial thoughts. Haven't really hammered out details.

Has anyone had any thoughts on adding Lady Malys to the Beaststar unit. Can't be targeted by Psychic powers and can redeploy d3 units.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

I was considering doing a big beaststar(25 Kymarae) with the baron, 1 farseer and 5 spiritseers, having the farseer go for fortune/invis, and having the spiritseers go for hammerhand/invis.

Initial thoughts are that the unit now gets horrendously expensive plus the Spiritseers can't have Jetbikes so they would slow the unit down. I agree it would potentially be very powerful though.

1++ wrote:

Has anyone had any thoughts on adding Lady Malys to the Beaststar unit. Can't be targeted by Psychic powers and can redeploy d3 units.

I have thought about it but Malys also blocks Fortune, Invisibility and other blessings.

Anyone have any thoughts on running a beaststar with no craft world support? With new psycic phase I'm skeptical about our ability to get powers off with just an allied seer. Perhaps running a dark eldar only unit of baron, 15ish kymerae, few flocks and some beast masters. Maybe throw in a haemonulous for turn one for a pain token till they FAQ it and pop him back into a raider, could even combo with a crucible for anti psycic support.

-random 2 cents

Fearless is mandatory to make the beaststar work. Ld9 from the baron is laughable. They could just tank shock us off the table, or with all the serpent shields running around, make us take 5-7 pinning tests a turn. chances are we will get pinned.

Amornar wrote:

Anyone have any thoughts on running a beaststar with no craft world support? With new psycic phase I'm skeptical about our ability to get powers off with just an allied seer. Perhaps running a dark eldar only unit of baron, 15ish kymerae, few flocks and some beast masters. Maybe throw in a haemonulous for turn one for a pain token till they FAQ it and pop him back into a raider, could even combo with a crucible for anti psycic support.

-random 2 cents

Like skulnbonz mentioned fearless is a must for big beastpacks. I have mentioned before and will mention this again again.

Vect

He brings everything beasts need with Baron. Preferred enemy is almost as good as precience. That 3+ slicer is a good addition to beasts too.

Vasara wrote:

Amornar wrote:

Anyone have any thoughts on running a beaststar with no craft world support? With new psycic phase I'm skeptical about our ability to get powers off with just an allied seer. Perhaps running a dark eldar only unit of baron, 15ish kymerae, few flocks and some beast masters. Maybe throw in a haemonulous for turn one for a pain token till they FAQ it and pop him back into a raider, could even combo with a crucible for anti psycic support.

-random 2 cents

Like skulnbonz mentioned fearless is a must for big beastpacks. I have mentioned before and will mention this again again.

Vect

He brings everything beasts need with Baron. Preferred enemy is almost as good as precience. That 3+ slicer is a good addition to beasts too.

My only issue with Vect is his ridiculous point cost. I usually play 1500 points and I simply can't fit him in.