Wracktica

Can't argue with that. At least this gives some insight in the effective wounds poison weapons deal.

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All wracks start with 2 poison 4+ weapons, which makes them special weapons. 1 normal CCW (or pistol) and 1 special weapon gives you an extra attack, as does having two of the same special weapons. Giving the Acoythist an Agoniser gives him 1 4+ power weapon, and 1 4+ poison weapon, meaning that he does not gain an attack because he has two special CCWs.

Damn, my bad. Thats work against wracks...cuz having 1less agoniser attack is...well 1 less agoniser attack.

[quote="Shadows Revenge"]
I did add in the pain token, thats why for my wounds done by the marines, there is an extra step "(18*.5*.5*.83*.5=1.87)[\quote]

Ah yea never really sat down to learn math hammer. Sorry about that.

Quote :

All wracks start with 2 poison 4+ weapons, which makes them special weapons. 1 normal CCW (or pistol) and 1 special weapon gives you an extra attack, as does having two of the same special weapons. Giving the Acoythist an Agoniser gives him 1 4+ power weapon, and 1 4+ poison weapon, meaning that he does not gain an attack because he has two special CCW

Why wouldn't the acothyst gain the bonus of +1 attack with the agoniser?
did I miss something?

Personally I prefer using the scissor hands on the Acothyst for an extra attack of poisoned(+3) Although I am unsure if the codex is telling me that with the scissor hands I will get 2 poison(+4) attacks + 2 poison(+3) attacks with the scissor hand with out the charge bonus or it I only get one poison (+3) attacks.

Yup, thats why when I field an Acoythist (normally i just have a haemie in with them, and he takes the sarges place) I normally field him just as he is, or with a scissorhand (acts like two close combat weapons, and moves his poison up to a 3+)

Also I would like to add that unless you are fielding a fluffy Coven list, or you really care about your wracks running away (and they dont have a haemie with them) you will rarely see the Acoythist. I just dont think he is worth the points tbh, or atleast not with his inability to get an extra attack with a pw

And like I said, the Agoniser is a special weapon, and the basic 4+ poison weapon he has is a special weapon. Read the rulebook under Two Different Special Weapons part (dont have the book on hand, so dont have the page #) to see why. But basically he must choose to use one special weapon.

Shadows Revenge wrote:

Why wouldn't the acothyst gain the bonus of +1 attack with the agoniser?
did I miss something?

You get bonus attacks from having an additional CCW or pistol.
The Acothyst doesn't have one - he only has a poison weapon, which is a special weapon, and therefore does not grant the bonus unless it is two of the same type of special weapon.

Okay I thought the two poisoned weapons still counted as regular close combat weapons. Yea thats my bad. Also pg 42 (yea the page number humored me ^_^) in the small rule book.

Grumpy Kwi wrote:

In wwp lists where I have a strong coven theme I will also use a full 10 man assault squad on foot in the portal. 2 liquifiers and an agoniser in the squad and when they emerge they can flame and charge. Unlike the others, they do not fear not having a target when they emerge and their threat is so short range that they do not rank too high on the enemy's priority. I also think that their threat to the enemy is strictly anti infantry and that doesn't seem to scare anybody.

So, in my experiences I have ran all wracks before and I notice I wished to have a little more in the way of being able to deal with armor (even if it is just light armor) rather than just anti infantry. Lately, I have been using a mix of 50% wracks and 50% wyches in my troop slots. They wyches provide a dual role and are better geared for dealing with all kinds of threats and at "taking away" objectives. In a list like this, I use the wracks as either wwp escorts or raider rush escorts that get thrown at the enemy screaming "shoot me, shoot me"! (game starters). They do make good objective campers and can defend an objective decently when charged however their main weakness is dealing with armor so beware.

This is pretty much what I have been running as of late. I have been nothing bu pleased with the results. Now if only my DL's could roll 3's or higher for armor penetration...

Evil Space Elves wrote:

Now if only my DL's could roll 3's or higher for armor penetration...

DL's are haywire blasters that can insta-kill infantry - other than that I do not expect much out of DL's (mostly due to my bad luck).

I am intrigued about using a 'camping' / multi role unit of wracks with haemie to protect the WWP/hold objectives. I was thinking:

7 Wracks
Liquifier
Acothyst with Hexrifle

Haemi with WWP and Hex rifle

Raider with DL.

Move 12" turn one, all jump out and pop the WWP - hide behind and fire off 1 hex rifle shot at singular models, Armour 4+ multiwound enemies (monstrous creatures, ogryns etc) and if a bit more desperate then the rending and AP value on it could even mean damaging or 'haywire blasting' an enemy vehicle - still worth it for 15 points in my opinion: if firing at a higher amoured vehicle (say 13) it could equate to a str 7 weapon.

Or am I getting that a little wrong?

I hear however from lots of people that the hex rifle just isn't worth it: but it would provide the unit with some form of long ranged firepower - something that, when sat on a home objective or in large multiplayer/big battlefield games, could mean that their turns sat waiting are not wasted: the liquifier for when enemies get close follwed by a bundled assault.

PS. Good theory Grumpy, mine never seem to do enough either...
...So I pack dual heat lances into my reaver and scourge squads, bringing them out of a WWP instead

Vehicles cannot be affected by hexrifles.

dangerous beans wrote:

I am intrigued about using a 'camping' / multi role unit of wracks with haemie to protect the WWP/hold objectives. I was thinking:

7 Wracks
Liquifier
Acothyst with Hexrifle

Haemi with WWP and Hex rifle

Raider with DL.

Exactly except for the hex rifles. Haemy gets a liquifier and lately he has been getting a venom blade. Unfortunately for me there are too many conditions that need to go your way in order for it to work - if I can't get a dark lance to wreck rhino then I am certainly not going to think a hex rifle has any chance of going my way (although I keep imagining shooting Hive Guard with it and laughing).

I think one of the reasons a wrack wwp escort works for me as an objective camper is because they are really not a threat at all to the enemy other than a scoring unit and they tend to worry about other more dangerous things in the list to divert their attention to. Wracks do not have fleet so their assault range is short and they have liquifiers so their shooting effectiveness is short - why bother? Put a 36" assault sniper rifle in there and all of a sudden they climbed a little higher on the priority list and I personally do not want that if they are just going to pitch a tent and sign campfire songs by the fire.

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PS. Good theory Grumpy, mine never seem to do enough either...
...So I pack dual heat lances into my reaver and scourge squads, bringing them out of a WWP instead

Exactly! I am a sucker for a heatlance as for some reason they defy my bad luck on a regular basis. 1 heat lance to me is better than 2 darklances, even with melta range rule thingy.

Quoted from the 5th book on snipers against vehicles

"Against vehicles, snipers weapons count as Strength 3 weapons, which, combined with the rending rule, represents their chances of sucessfully hitting exposed crew, vision ports, fuel or ammo storage etc."

Quoted from the 5th book on rending rules against vehicles

"Against vehicles, an armour penetration roll of 6 allows a further D3 to be rolled, with the result added to the total score"

So getting a rending wound would grant a min armour pen roll of 10 and a max of 12. Am I wrong saying this though?

Kiwi - raising the priority of enemies shooting the wracks is good thing right? As they are more resilient than many of our other (often more expensive) units-bikes, wyches, scorges etc. I know that the liquifier route is a good one, but I often find that (and the same for my talons with dual liquifiers) the firepower from them sees my opponent take casualties from the nearest to my wracks-often denying me any chance to assault. Thus I wondered at the alternative options for wracks than the 'auto choice'.

dangerous beans wrote:

Quoted from the 5th book on snipers against vehicles

"Against vehicles, snipers weapons count as Strength 3 weapons, which, combined with the rending rule, represents their chances of sucessfully hitting exposed crew, vision ports, fuel or ammo storage etc."

Quoted from the 5th book on rending rules against vehicles

"Against vehicles, an armour penetration roll of 6 allows a further D3 to be rolled, with the result added to the total score"

So getting a rending wound would grant a min armour pen roll of 10 and a max of 12. Am I wrong saying this though?

Kiwi - raising the priority of enemies shooting the wracks is good thing right? As they are more resilient than many of our other (often more expensive) units-bikes, wyches, scorges etc. I know that the liquifier route is a good one, but I often find that (and the same for my talons with dual liquifiers) the firepower from them sees my opponent take casualties from the nearest to my wracks-often denying me any chance to assault. Thus I wondered at the alternative options for wracks than the 'auto choice'.

Quoted from the Dark Eldar Codex regarding the hexrifle

"Vehicles cannot be affected by hexrifles."

Ha ha u beat me to it. I was gonna go home and check the codex to make sure

Ahh! Good call lol!

Yeah so point taken about hex rifles then - hopefully those 6th ed rumours prove true so that you can target models in units - thatd be sick

Indeed. If sniper rifles do allow us to place wounds in units, then the value of a hexrifle will increase significantly.

dangerous beans wrote:

Kiwi -

Haha, I am fruit gone bad!

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raising the priority of enemies shooting the wracks is good thing right?

Depends on what your role is for that wrack squad - my first expectation (role) is they escort the wwp carrier and allow the carrier to live as well as get the portal down where I want it. Their second priority is to "score" and the third priority is "shooting/assault".

So no, I do not want to raise their priority in the opponents shooting phase as they will already be at the top of their priority list on turn 1 and sometimes turn 2. Once the portal is down I need them to survive and score and I am perfectly happy with that. Being a scoring unit is probably their #1 job, I never want to lose a scoring unit.

The natural thing that happens with the opponent is once the portals are down the opponent re-prioritizes and is now more concerned with what is coming out of the portal - the wracks are almost always forgotten or so far down the list (cuz of their low threat value) they are left untouched.

As for wanting the wracks to take pressure off of the more expensive units - why? The units coming out of the portal should be "alpha-striking" whether it is shooting something into oblivion or charging it straight out of the portal. In other words, you should already have an idea of how the units in the portal are going to work so you should have already considered that they will be a top concern to them.

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my opponent take casualties from the nearest to my wracks-often denying me any chance to assault.

For me I weigh the benefit of either choice, do I shoot and not charge or do I charge and not shoot. If there is one thing about the wracks (and even the Talos) is that if they shoot and can't charge, they are the one squad that has the best chance to survive the next shooting phase. I will be honest though and maybe it might be good generalship but I haven't had that problem. I think it maybe more of not getting my units in a position where they need to shoot and assault to win the combat. I know I preach that the wracks need a good shooting phase to have a good assault phase but that is priority #3 to me unless they are clearing out a target from an objective. So I would have to consider the risk of losing combat (losing a scoring unit) before engaging in close combat.

As for my squad configuration - a Mounted wrack squad of 8 with a liquifier and naked acothyst is escorting on portal carrier. The other unit is usually a full 10 wracks with 2 liquifiers and a naked acothyst. I like to have one aggressive portal location and the other a conservative one that backs up the other. The aggressive one is tough to keep alive but it does tend to get used the most. I have had it blocked before but the other portal will often be close enough so the units that emerge can engage the blocking unit.

Just my thoughts, others play it differently I'm sure as with this new codex there is no longer "only one way to play" them.

I have used 5 wracks in a raider with a Liquifier as a vanguard, parked across my wych raiders, if cover is not overly available. They can absorb an explosion much better if the worst comes to the worst, and it often permits the wyches to get across the board and stuck in.

Has anyone tried a wrack dominated troop selection in a non WWP set up?

Ythillan wrote:

Has anyone tried a wrack dominated troop selection in a non WWP set up?

I have. My list had 3 squads of 9 wracks w/ liquifer, acoythist lead by 3 haemies w/ PWs and liqufiers, and 3 squads of 5 man wracks w/ liquifer in venom. It was actually pretty nasty overall, the problem was that they had no AT, so I had to go elsewhere for it (I had a squad of Grots, some scourges)

Wracks should be treated as assault marines, because that is pretty much what their stat line comes out too (plus their only good weapon is a flamer... how odd) just remember they do have their limits, and I will say out of the two cc troop choices we have (I dont count hellions as an assault troop...) they are definately second to wyches. But then again they have their own special spot in our army as the toughest troop we got.

I have tried all wracks and I found that I missed having at least one squad of wyches in the list as the wracks had to watch a monolith come at them with no where to run.

The reverse was also true, ran all wyches and wished I had a wrack squad so now my lists either have 50/50 wrack to wych ratio or at least one of each when sharing with hellions. I do not care much for warriors and have no desire to use them at all - maybe one day I will use them in a theme of some kind but that would be a day I was really bored with the game.

Grumpy Kwi wrote:

I have tried all wracks and I found that I missed having at least one squad of wyches in the list as the wracks had to watch a monolith come at them with no where to run.

The reverse was also true, ran all wyches and wished I had a wrack squad so now my lists either have 50/50 wrack to wych ratio or at least one of each when sharing with hellions. I do not care much for warriors and have no desire to use them at all - maybe one day I will use them in a theme of some kind but that would be a day I was really bored with the game.

So far I have had at least one of each aswell. Is there a particular type of enemy you aim for with your wracks? I guess high toughness enemies would be a good place to start. I find they go through hordes quite well too, with the flamer.

Do you think giving them a Haemonculus changes their role as a damage dealer?

I have a Wrack unit i always use. Its a bit expansive, but it hits gold most of the time.

My build is
x9 Wracks + 1 Liquifier
+ 1 Haem + 1 Liquifier + PW
+ raider

find a target, Shoot it with your other AT units (if the target is in a APC) and Move your raider up for a charge.

flame it,

then,

charge the target at S4 I5 (furious charge thanks to the extra token from the haem), 27 Poison attacks, VS MEQ at T4, you get to reroll your attacks in a charge as your unit is at S4 for that turn. And 3 Power weapon attacks.. normally position the haem out of harms way as you wont want him punch in the face by a PF...

from my experience VS MEQ you have enough attacks at first charge to cripple it by taking out just enough (normally about 4-5 kills) and as you hit first the marines will lose their attacks as you have higher initiative. (as long as you did not charge into cover)

Killing just enough at the charge is important! as it will ensure a lesser chance they will run.. you seriously do not want to wipe them out in a charge... big no no.

in their CC phase the you get to attack at almost full number, which is great as you -

1. wont be sitting ducks if you wipe them in your charge turn. Imagine if the necron warriors you are bashing were to wipeout and a monolith or something else is just around the corner... you will look extremely foolish...
2. you will most likely wipe them out in their CC phase leaving your unit free to move in your turn. With a bonus +1 pain token giving them fearless.
3. If they just reinforce that unit with another that means, less shots coming your way, and you can keep pushing with the rest of your assault force somewhere else... while you get to make your own kill box once they wipe that wrack squad.

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DE is a surgical army, you dont hit a target with a warhammer you slice it up with a butterfly knife and enjoy the pain.

In my opinion they are slightly better than Wyches because they can tarpit with their feel no pain and kill more tougher units like wraith lords and other high toughness units with their poison. Something a normal wych will find hard to impossible to do without hekatrix or your HQ.

using them at their minimum number for objective captures is to me missing out on their potential... also I prefer my reavers that is kept out of harms way to turbo boost at the last turn to anything i want to contest.

Pros
Very versatile unit, good attacking unit, good tarpit unit, does not rely on a specialist to do its work... you can run it plain without a haem and still will work well, every member of the unit has poison which makes high toughness units not that tough, rarely needs support from another unit.

Cons
Can be costly, no shooting besides the flamers, slow without a dedicated transport, NO AT capabilities.