Starting at the basics!

As a new player to Dark Eldar (& this edition of 40k as well), i am currently collecting and looking to start painting up my force to take to the table and conquer/maim/torture etc my way across the galaxy!

I have spent a fair amount of time reading the tactical posts on units and the like and am generally confident that i understand the basics if remaining rather inexperienced with the dark kin!

However, before i go out and buy a load of troops i just want to clear a few things up!

Are Kabalites good enough on foot? I was planning to field 20 of them with 2 Splinter Cannons and a Haemo so that i can start with a pain token and hide in cover and lay down a good firebase.

Wyches: i was looking to take 2 units of ten in Raiders. Overwatch has me worried if i am honest and i am thinking that maybe smaller units in Venoms might even work better? Esp. if i pop some haywire grenades in them to pick off vehicles.

That leads me on to the theme in general: do we need transport vehicles on all of our troops to male them effective? While i appreciate that they do improve our effectiveness at this moment in time my finances are not in a position to buy loads of Raiders?

Cheers in advance.

Wolf

Wolf Blackwood wrote:

Are Kabalites good enough on foot? I was planning to field 20 of them with 2 Splinter Cannons and a Haemo so that i can start with a pain token and hide in cover and lay down a good firebase.

Good enough for what?

Your 20 man blob with Haem costs more than 2 Venoms w. extra splinter cannons would, and has half as much firepower, but is more durable. It all depends on your goal.

I, personally, find this edition favors mobility, and think that being on foot hurts mobility, so would not play that unit. On average, most people consider Dark Footdar an inferior build in a competitive sense.

Wolf Blackwood wrote:

Wyches: i was looking to take 2 units of ten in Raiders. Overwatch has me worried if i am honest and i am thinking that maybe smaller units in Venoms might even work better? Esp. if i pop some haywire grenades in them to pick off vehicles.

Wyches do not do as well as they used to in this edition. Overwatch is not good for T3 6+ Sv models. Assaulting a Tactical 5 man squad with a flamer can practically wipe your wyches.

The generally agreed upon best use for Wyches is as Haywire toting anti-vehicle units.

If you'd like to have an assaulty force, Wracks are the best option in the Troop slot at the moment.
There are other better non-Troop based assault options as well.

Wolf Blackwood wrote:

That leads me on to the theme in general: do we need transport vehicles on all of our troops to male them effective? While i appreciate that they do improve our effectiveness at this moment in time my finances are not in a position to buy loads of Raiders?

Eh...this is an odd question.
The answer is - yes, they do make them more effective.
The answer is no - you are not obligated to buy them in order to field Dark Eldar
The answer is it depends - depending on the collections and playstyle of who you're gaming with it might not even matter.

I would tend to advocate buying maybe a smaller army and building it with the mech elements to help get you familiar with mech play, and then expand from there. But I don't know your budget. Hunting down the Battleforce set is still a solid value buy.

Hope that helps some,
Thor.

Cheers Thor, it certainly clears some things up!

Would you advocate Wyches in a Venom to compensate for their considerable lack or shooting and pop Kabalite's in Raiders, to help bolster theirs?

I have got a Battalion coming in the post but am wondering if i should buy another or get a pair of venom's for the Wyches in there?

Wolf

That last post of mine wasn't entirely clear.

The reason i thought Wyches in a Venom is because i would take them in 5 man units, while Kabalite's would remain ten man units and sit on a raider.

That way they both can kill infantry!

Personally I'd only advocate footslogging if you've got a webway portal to jump through, thereby keeping your troops safe from enemy shooting until they come on and giving them a boost upfield. This isn't recommended for assault troops, since they won't be able to do anything for a turn, but warriors might work.

You could theoretically do a Kabalite gunline, and it certainly would be different, but I don't see it playing to the strengths of the Dark Eldar.

As for wyches Thor summed it up pretty well: wyches die very easily to any form of gunfire and are best suited for tank busting. If you really want them in assault you need a raider full of them and preferably a hekatrix with a venom blade, or possibly an agonizer if you're willing to splurge all your points on the unit, to give them some killing power. I imagine they'll still be fairly underwhelming but it's your best bet for making them work.

Cool, thanks for the responses!

I think i will start to rethink things a little bit and maybe go a lot more mech!

Kind Regards

Wolf

I've had quite a bit of success with 8 man units of Wyches with Haywire grenades. They are primarily anti-tank, but can still be quite effective against non-cc units. It was also fun to blow up a baneblade in one turn.

My list is limited to the models I have and the ones I like. My force generally has three raiders that fly up the center with assault units of some sort. Incubi are my favorites. Mostly for aesthetics, but they can lay the hurt on people. They also take most fire so the Wyches can assault with relative ease.

I've also run a big block of 20 warriors for most if 5th and the start of 6th. In the end, two blocks of 10 seem better. More reactive, more mobile (two directions at once), and harder to push off an objective. If people focus fire on the first squad, the second doesn't take a test.

My two cents. Agreed with comments above that it may not play to army strengths, but it is doable.

I`m always run wiches and can`t say overwatch is that big trouble. It`s dangerous only in few moments:
1 - You charge a REALY BIG blob of infantry.
2 - Charge squad of flamers (like wraithguards)
3 - Tau, as they have supporting fire, so it`s like charge a big blob.
4 - Unit under forewarding psychic power (they shoot at full BS)
5 - REALY lucky opponent (wich trow 10 dices and 8 of them is 6  

Yeah - i do love the look of pretty much all the models (Razorwing flocks are a bit meh!) and i definitely want some Incubi to lead the charge!

The highest mental thing i have to get over is, for want of a better explanation, no line infantry! Even my Dark Angels which i used as a majority Ravenwing and DS Deathwing force has tactical marines who, while were never awesome, were tough and useful to hold positions.

I am tempted to take a decent size unit of Wyches in a Raider purely because i love the models and think a Raider with lots dangling off would look cool!

As our transports are not known for their resilience, what do people do once they have been knocked out of thr sky? Is it just a case of getting the surviving Kabalites into cover and have enough skimmers still in the air to carry the day? ( And prisoners?)

I can relate with ya Wolf, when I first started I didn't really want to buy any transports. The Dark Eldar range is so awesome, you don't want to keep chucking $30-$40 at the same model. And when it comes to painting, vehicles can often turn into a bore, even if they do look as amazing as ours.

But after playing DE now for so long, aesthetically and tactically, it is the transports that make the army. We have the fastest transports in the game. My opponents mind exploded when I rolled a 12 on my aethersails, and my raider moved 42" into his backfield. Without aethersails they can move 30". Sometimes you can win games simply by turboboosting away from the enemy and resetting field advantage. On top of that, they're offensive as well. Raiders are one of the only wasy to field Disintegrator Cannon, or even better mobile Dark Lances. Venoms put out more firepower than most units we have.

I don't even take my troops out anymore. Until they go down. A lot of my units will never see the light of day... unless I'm doing really poorly.

Wolf Blackwood wrote:

Are Kabalites good enough on foot? I was planning to field 20 of them with 2 Splinter Cannons and a Haemo so that i can start with a pain token and hide in cover and lay down a good firebase.

Wyches: i was looking to take 2 units of ten in Raiders. Overwatch has me worried if i am honest and i am thinking that maybe smaller units in Venoms might even work better? Esp. if i pop some haywire grenades in them to pick off vehicles.

That leads me on to the theme in general: do we need transport vehicles on all of our troops to male them effective? While i appreciate that they do improve our effectiveness at this moment in time my finances are not in a position to buy loads of Raiders?

Cheers in advance.

Wolf

20 Kabalites with FnP is really very good. a 4+ or 5+ cover and a 5+ FnP is excellent defensive ability. Be aware that gettign the unit into position is the hard part. 24" isn't as far as it seems and when you first deploy it will be VERY common for you to have to move the squad up. So if you go this route, dont hang back in the deployment zone. You'll almost certainly be moving round 1. The Cannons make sense as anti-personell is the units primary strength. Centrally deploying the unit is advised.

Wyches in a Raider allow more to survive the inevitable explosion. If you are going to take them in those numbers in Raiders, take Haemonculus with them. They need the added protection from shooting but even moreso from exploding transports. If you rely on venoms to deliver Wyches, they will be for surgical strikes and generally I feel... I feel... they are better off with the extra hull point and the haemonculus to protect them. Remember, the haemonculus can break off and join another unit right before the unit charges if he wants to and leave the Token behind. Don't feel like you can't do that when its better for you to do so. Either way Haywire grenades are advised!

Transports are not aCTUALLY necessary for the most part but they are very good and they are able to carry deadly weaponry in a way no other unit you have can. So I dont think its a matter of need. but if you choose not to use Raiders it drastically changes the needs of the list and therefore the unit selection.

Let me just recommend something a little outside the topic. Buy from eBay. It's not hard to find raiders for 20 bucks there often in need of just a little paint stripping or a new sail (L.A. totally awesome will take that paint right off, soak for 6 hours and scrub with a toothbrush). Trust me, you want boats for your men.

Mobility is king in this edition and to the dark kin it's more like our one and only god, fringe avatar cults like my kabal excluded of course lol

^Definitely, used has its merits. I will say depending on your desire to run jetbikes, the battleforce is actually a really good value and comes with a raider. Buy the battle box and two venoms for a damn good start to an army.

10x kabalite warriors in raider
2x5 haywire wyches in venoms
and the three jetbikes
and your HQ of choice and you're ready for small skirmishes.

Yeah i managed to pick up an unopened battleforce for half price!

I am not entirely sold on the idea of jetbikes but i do like the models and for me the hobby is all inclusive: fluff, modelling, painting and gaming - so even if i have a few jetbikes i never use I'll still be glad to have them!

I did have an idea for a 750 point list that i posted up but as i am short of my own Incbus at the moment i might trial jet bikes. At that point limit i can get in a few games one day so can get a better feel for the army.

Is there a cut off point when we start to lose our effectiveness? I always thought that anything 3000 points or over was really an uphill struggle for Space Marines for example who couldn't seem to keep pace with other armies, where imperial guard because utterly punishing at higher points levels!

Is there a bracket that i should be aiming to play within?

Cheers

Wolf

Not too big, not too small! Pure DE lists don't get the crazy Lord of War options of other armies (although an allied Revenant has a formidable rep) and they also struggle at low points because of transport costs vs the handicap of not taking them.

Depends on the mission really. I like between 1500-1750/1850 feels about right. At 2000 points+, whenever kill points are involved, it feels like a handicap.

500-1000pts is where i think de shine, with msu units

doriii wrote:

500-1000pts is where i think de shine, with msu units

so what are you saying? Dark eldar are good at small raids against underpowered forces?   

who would have thought

Ispa wrote:

doriii wrote:

500-1000pts is where i think de shine, with msu units

so what are you saying? Dark eldar are good at small raids against underpowered forces?   

who would have thought

Unbeleavable i know   kind of what we're all about

Lol!

One of the idea's that was putting me off DE was their inability to do anything in massive games but in two decades of Wargaming i have played maybe a dozen large (5k+ games) and most of them have been fantasy!

So its not really that relevant!