Kabal of the Tormented Blade - 1,000 pt starter army

HQ
Archon Asmodei - 120 pts
Agoniser, Combat drugs, Shadowfield, joins Wyches

Troops
10 Kabalite Warriors, The Brotherhood of Angst - 185 pts
Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Raider w/ Flickerfield

9 Wyches, The Brides of Asmodei - 218 pts
Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider w/ Flickerfield

Fast Attack
10 Hellions - 185 pts
Helliarch w/ Agoniser

Heavy Support
Ravager, Acheron - 125 pts
Flickerfield & Night shields

Razorwing Jetfighter Pyros - 165 pts
Disintegrator Cannons, Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield

Currently this is all the models I have, I'm looking to expand to 1500pts by adding a second warrior squad in a raider, a small Incubi squad (4 in venom) to accompany my Archon and either a small trueborn blaster squad in a venom or a scourge double haywire squad.

if you were really hardcore to have a combat archon, save some points and use a Succubus instead.

95 points gets you an agonizer and haywire grenades, + the 4+ invul..

You could then spend the extra points for upgrades like a blaster in the warriors or a blast pistol or two here and there to fill out points until you pick more models.

Shredder is useless on warriors, what it is ment to kill (AI), we have plenty of. I would try and get that to a blaster, or use the points for something else.

Other than that, it looks solid. On moving up, I would fill out your HS first. Another Ravager/ Razorwing, depending on your playstyle, before you start looking into your elites/FA for AT. Baron is also nice if you want to make your Helions the center of your force.

Not bad, before you buy more models, prox and see what fit to your play style.

Spiney Norman wrote:

Archon Asmodei - 120 pts
Agoniser, Combat drugs, Shadowfield, joins Wyches

I like this.

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Troops
10 Kabalite Warriors, The Brotherhood of Angst - 185 pts
Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Raider w/ Flickerfield

What's the point of the Sybarite? Are you really that scared of leadership tests? If he's worth taking, to my mind, it's worth taking some upgrades with him. If it's not worth upgrades it's probably not worth the points for the model.
I'll echo in with the group against the Shredder - you have 18 (20) poison shots, what are you dealing with where you need more anti-infantry firepower?
I'd take a Blaster because it's good versus infantry - and will also let the squad do some damage to vehicles too if you need (and I think you do)

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9 Wyches, The Brides of Asmodei - 218 pts
Hydra Gauntlets, Haywire Grenades, Hekatrix w/ Agoniser, Raider w/ Flickerfield

Okay with this - though at 1000 points I think you're making this squad way powerful for what it'll likely have to face. It'd be very easy to shave some points here.

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Fast Attack
10 Hellions - 185 pts
Helliarch w/ Agoniser

Yeah...I know some people just love Hellions, and, y'know, gawd bless you for the love, they need it.
I will just point out, that you could basically field a second squad of Wyches for the same cost - and they would be faster, harder to hurt, have multiple anti-tank options, and will drop another vehicle on the board to target saturate your opponent's anti-tank.
Also, I have to say, Hellions are very expensive, and not even all that good at what they're supposed to do.

All that said, if for some reason I wanted to field Hellions, this is probably the way I'd field them. So, if you insist on keeping them this is not a bad setup.

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Heavy Support
Ravager, Acheron - 125 pts
Flickerfield & Night shields

Fine with this

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Razorwing Jetfighter Pyros - 165 pts
Disintegrator Cannons, Splinter Cannon, Flickerfield

No nightshield on the more expensive heavy option? Hmmm...
I'm of the belief that the Lances are the superior option on the Razorwing, and I also believe the Razorwing is an optimal infantry-killing tool. The thing is, it's big impact is right away, and after that it can still cut down infantry with 2 lances and S.Cannon (I just had to do this tonight versus a bunch of Blood Angels actually) but by having the Lances it gives you some options on the field that Dissies lack for you.

Hope that helps,
Thor.

Thor665 wrote:

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Troops
10 Kabalite Warriors, The Brotherhood of Angst - 185 pts
Shredder, Splinter Cannon, Sybarite, Raider w/ Flickerfield

What's the point of the Sybarite? Are you really that scared of leadership tests? If he's worth taking, to my mind, it's worth taking some upgrades with him. If it's not worth upgrades it's probably not worth the points for the model.
I'll echo in with the group against the Shredder - you have 18 (20) poison shots, what are you dealing with where you need more anti-infantry firepower?
I'd take a Blaster because it's good versus infantry - and will also let the squad do some damage to vehicles too if you need (and I think you do)

Hmmm, ok I see the points being made. The main reason I'm using shredders on my warrior squads is that I'm saving the blaster to make a blaster born venom squad, plus I generally specialise my squads to a certain area, so chucking an anti-tank gun in a squad of poisoned shots seems a little counter-intuitive, if the blaster is doing what it is supposed to then the rest of the squad's shooting is wasted. Redundancy is good when I have points to burn, but I don't.

The Sybarite is there because I take all my squads with leaders, its a theme thing, as for upgrades I did think about maybe a venom blade in case the squad gets into assault, but didn't have the pts when everything shook out.

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Yeah...I know some people just love Hellions, and, y'know, gawd bless you for the love, they need it.
I will just point out, that you could basically field a second squad of Wyches for the same cost - and they would be faster, harder to hurt, have multiple anti-tank options, and will drop another vehicle on the board to target saturate your opponent's anti-tank.
Also, I have to say, Hellions are very expensive, and not even all that good at what they're supposed to do.

All that said, if for some reason I wanted to field Hellions, this is probably the way I'd field them. So, if you insist on keeping them this is not a bad setup.

Yeah, you've got me, I just can't get enough of the hellion models, they've worked faily well for me so far, running them up behind my raiders for a cover save, then assaulting something smaller to get their first pain token, then they're pretty much away. I'm liking the idea of the Baron though, I'll have to look at doing a conversion.

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No nightshield on the more expensive heavy option? Hmmm...
I'm of the belief that the Lances are the superior option on the Razorwing, and I also believe the Razorwing is an optimal infantry-killing tool. The thing is, it's big impact is right away, and after that it can still cut down infantry with 2 lances and S.Cannon (I just had to do this tonight versus a bunch of Blood Angels actually) but by having the Lances it gives you some options on the field that Dissies lack for you.

Hope that helps,
Thor.

The reason I didn't go for NS on the Razor as well is because my Ravager tends to stay further away for longer, Night shields become progressively redundant the nearer you are to enemy models. Where my ravager spends most of the game rotating on the spot siting enemy vehicles the Razor does a lot more flying around.

Again I tend to tool my units for a single role, so a vehicle equipped with anti-infantry missiles, an anti-infantry S cannon and two anti-vehicle lances seems a little off. Whats more I rarely face more than 2-3 vehicles unless I'm playing the IG guy (and he only brings 4) so maxing out on darklight doesn't seem that sensible. The disintegrators are great for mowing down power armour and even terminators, which is something the rest of the list can't really do.

Regarding the HQ I'm really running the archon because I'm going for a Kabal theme rather than a cult, but I get that an agoniser archon is really just a very expensive succubus. I do have a succubus model so I will give her a try.

Sybarite upgrade is actualy a wise move, you may laugh but when your whole squad gonna run back home cuz Ld you gona curse the day for not spending 10 pts to have gigger chance to avoid this.

And shredder is only 5pts for S6.

The rest of your responses basically came to "because I feel like it" and I can't argue with that - I will niggle at this ne point though;

Spiney Norman wrote:

I generally specialise my squads to a certain area, so chucking an anti-tank gun in a squad of poisoned shots seems a little counter-intuitive, if the blaster is doing what it is supposed to then the rest of the squad's shooting is wasted. Redundancy is good when I have points to burn, but I don't.

I think you're missing the thrust of the Blaster;

Okay, let's consider, there are basically two types of targets for your anti-infantry shooting;

1. Targets who will get an armor save. (MEQ)
2. Targets who won't (GEQ)

All the shredder does is give you, functionally, more poison shooting because it doesn't effect armor.
When shooting at #2 your splinter shots will probably kill about 10 guys.
When shooting at #1 your splinter shots will probably kill about 2-3

So, what helps the squad more?

A Shredder will be really strong vs. #2 and will probably add another 5-6 or so dead bodies for a total of 15-16, awesome.
vs. #1 the Shredder weakens substantially and probably only manages 1-2 additional kills.

A Blaster will basically about 1 kill vs. both 1 and 2

So, a Shredder makes you great vs. #2
A Shredder and a Blaster are basically identical vs. #1
The squad needs help vs. #1 and already does okay vs #2 with or without a Shredder/Blaster

A Blaster will let you destroy a vehicle (any type of vehicle, really) if you *need* to destroy a vehicle a Blaster squad is a potent threat and a Shredder is a wild gamble and only good versus very weak vehicles.

That's why I think the Blaster is so much better. The squad can handle #2 all by themselves already, they're built for it.
The squad wants help vs. things that get armor saves, and the two special weapons are roughly identical for that.

The other targets the squad might deal with are MCs (the Blaster is far superior to the Shredder vs any MC out there, and splinter weapons are great vs. MCs
And the need to hurt a vehicle - again, where the Blaster is markedly superior.

It's not just about dual purpose (though that is nice) it's about giving the squad the tools that help it the most, and I think that's the Blaster.

My thoughts,
Thor.

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It's not just about dual purpose (though that is nice) it's about giving the squad the tools that help it the most, and I think that's the Blaster.

My dad used to say that if something is universal its like toilet paper...
Your point is good but I dont think its a good thing to use warriors to kill tanks...what I mean is you either good at killing infantry or tanks. Other thing is blaster cost 15pts...you may think its not much for S8 short lance....either me, its good price but those 10pts may be used to give FF/NS/ or other more vital upgrade somewhere else.

Oh and last one...when OP hear that this warrior squad carry lance he/she gonna use more fire power to bring it down since its a bigger threat.
In the end its matter of taste.
My 2 souls.

I like my opponent to think of everything as a threat.
I also like to have everything be a threat so my opponent has to think that way.

Toilet paper is great, and I would never want to be without toilet paper, I've been in bathrooms and not had toilet paper and I was never happy about that

hehehehehehehehe ey stop it its serious biznes!

Good point, Im on the other hand like to make them feel safe.