| Ravagers, what to do with them now? | |
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+26sweetbacon Mr Believer The Shredder Plague Calyptra Zenotaph Cavalier Klaivex Charondyr Mushkilla Crazy_Irish Aeterna Count Adhemar PainReaver Creeping Darkness lessthanjeff lelith LSK Skari Brom clively Mayk0l Dielema Thor665 Massaen Trystis amishprn86 30 posters |
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amishprn86 Archon
Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio
| Subject: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 00:58 | |
| Hello, Im new here, love the site already.
Some time ago I got Heavy into DE been playing them sense the start of 6th (Right when the new Nids dex came out, it was so underwhelming I went to my 2nd love for good).
Now that the meta is shifting in DE, What will we do with all of out Ravagers? What are your thoughts?
I feel I may not need them anymore and with the 20pt increase along with Might be Snap Fire 1 DL, it doesnt seem to bring for it.
Im thinking With our new Strong turn 2 Alpha striking, Fliers, Scourges, DS'ing Archon+court, venoms+Blasterborns etc.. having 2-3 Talos + Cronos on the table will be useful. Amazing Staying power, good CC and a nice late game unit. | |
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Trystis Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 220 Join date : 2012-12-01
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 01:05 | |
| I'm going to try mine out with disintegrators. It will keep its cost down and has a high volume of shots if I'm forced to jink. I'm going to try out fast attack options as my primary anti-tank. _________________ Kabal of the Shattered Tower
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amishprn86 Archon
Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 01:13 | |
| - Trystis wrote:
- I'm going to try mine out with disintegrators. It will keep its cost down and has a high volume of shots if I'm forced to jink. I'm going to try out fast attack options as my primary anti-tank.
I had the same idea aswell let me know how it goes. I feel the FA is very important for us now. | |
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Massaen Klaivex
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2011-07-05 Location : Western Australia
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 01:18 | |
| Ravagers are now correctly priced. They have been under priced for more than a decade! They can still move 6 and shoot everything. That said, my lists will not simply be auto include 3 going forward as we now have more options! _________________ Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website OBJECTIVE SECURED
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amishprn86 Archon
Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 01:23 | |
| Yeah.. I have a good feeling they will just be shelved, Ive played with them enough, time to pull out some Scourges and fliers for the 1st time _________________ New to Blogging, just starting https://maddpaint.blogspot.com/
Drukhari: 10k+ SoB: 3k AoS: BoC 9k, CoS 3k
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Thor665 Archon
Posts : 5546 Join date : 2011-06-10 Location : Venice, FL
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 02:26 | |
| I still need to decide what to do with the new dex and my builds.
That said, I will note that back in the day with the OG dex, I ran Ravagers with 6" movement and 3 lance shots or 12" movement and 1 lance shot. They still did their job just fine. The only difference is, really, in how you deploy them and you'll have to start thinking ahead a bit more now. _________________ The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles. | |
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Dielema Slave
Posts : 8 Join date : 2014-10-04
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 02:59 | |
| Can't ravagers still move 12, shoot two shots at full BS and snap shot one? | |
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Thor665 Archon
Posts : 5546 Join date : 2011-06-10 Location : Venice, FL
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 03:17 | |
| Yes. _________________ The Title Troupe! - Nom fellow posters for custom titles. | |
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Mayk0l Hellion
Posts : 72 Join date : 2013-09-01
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 04:22 | |
| - Trystis wrote:
- I'm going to try mine out with disintegrators. It will keep its cost down and has a high volume of shots if I'm forced to jink. I'm going to try out fast attack options as my primary anti-tank.
I'm going to do exactly this. Seems like the sensible thing to do | |
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clively Sybarite
Posts : 297 Join date : 2013-03-19
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 05:09 | |
| I agree. Ravagers have moved from anti tank to anti infantry. Honestly I think the switch from using hay wyches to scourges just feels like its a good trade. I hated the idea of using a wyche unit for tank killing as it felt like a one shot weapon anyway and true born were quite expensive and too easy to shut down. _________________ Kabal of the Green Hair
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Brom Wych
Posts : 755 Join date : 2013-03-28
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 05:20 | |
| Ravagers will still be fine. A 20 pt increase didn't change their value that much and I jink with mine anyway instead of FF. No plans to shelf them here although I'll be considering adding in some scourges like everyone else.
The other thing to consider is how ravagers stack up in the 7th edition scheme that gw is building. Everything is getting re adjusted across the spectrum. The new ravager is still a great buy in comparison to the latest heavy support units we've seen. | |
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Skari Wych
Posts : 935 Join date : 2011-12-12 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 05:40 | |
| Ravagers are different. I think a hybrid ravager will be the key, 2 lances and one dissy (for total of 5 shots) or 2 dissies and one lance for a total of 7 shots. I agree that FA will be our main AT at the moment, that and something with a WWP like wraithguard.
_________________ Unlock Exclusive Content on Patreon
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LSK Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 227 Join date : 2013-05-24
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 09:47 | |
| I think I will buy them as cheap as possible with 3 Dissies. DS them right behind light vehicules for AV10 glancing shots without cover. Stats are: 9 shots, 6 hits, 2 glancing (5+) ... or maybe a pen on a 6+ (dreeeaaam!)
The same stats with 3 lances would be: 3 shots, 2 hits, (2 pen) or (2 glance) or (1 pen + 1 glance) or nothing on 1's..
In case of jink-snapshots: 9 shots are better than 3.
Additionnally, due to the difficulty to blow up a vehicule in one shot with AP2 (6+ on the table), I'm not sure a Ravager w/ 3 dark lances are still the best option against heavy/superheavy tanks. The answer to this problem is in the FA slot.
Ravager with 3 dissies also offer the opportunity to deal with nasty Broadsides, Crisis and other 2+ annoying heavy infantry, which is its initial purpose.
Light Vehicule / Heavy Infantry hunter. _________________ kabal-of-the-endless-labyrinth other stuff (skaven, iron warriors, flesh tearers, orks)
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Trystis Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 220 Join date : 2012-12-01
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 10:46 | |
| - Thor665 wrote:
- I still need to decide what to do with the new dex and my builds.
That said, I will note that back in the day with the OG dex, I ran Ravagers with 6" movement and 3 lance shots or 12" movement and 1 lance shot. They still did their job just fine. The only difference is, really, in how you deploy them and you'll have to start thinking ahead a bit more now. I remember those days as well, and you are right. I think they will still be fine if that's how someone wants to run them. Personally I'm not changing their role because I think they're bad anti-tank, I just think I might be able to get better anti-tank elsewhere. Which will allow me to take one as pretty amazing anti-heavy infantry. Which I think has been a hole in my army for awhile. I'm also thinking about a mixed load out. In the past I was totally against it, but now it seems like I might need a Swiss Army knife approach... It's hard to say until I get in some games and get a second squad of scourge. _________________ Kabal of the Shattered Tower
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lelith Sybarite
Posts : 334 Join date : 2014-05-27 Location : FAR EAST
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 11:33 | |
| - Trystis wrote:
- I'm going to try mine out with disintegrators. It will keep its cost down and has a high volume of shots if I'm forced to jink. I'm going to try out fast attack options as my primary anti-tank.
+1. In fact, I usually use cannon-ravagers rather than lance-ravagers. They can wipe out any types of enemy infantries. - LSK wrote:
- Additionnally, due to the difficulty to blow up a vehicule in one shot with AP2 (6+ on the table), I'm not sure a Ravager w/ 3 dark lances are still the best option against heavy/superheavy tanks. The answer to this problem is in the FA slot.
I have the same opinion. _________________ Eldar Alliance: Kabal of the Wraithkind / Craftworld Iyanden / Masque of the Veiled Path / Ynnari Aetheriders (Log) Slaanesh Force: Chaos Daemons / Emperor's Children (both 30k & 40k) / Heretek Metalica
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lessthanjeff Sybarite
Posts : 347 Join date : 2014-03-09 Location : Orlando, FL
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 12:32 | |
| I expect I'll bench my two triple lance ravagers but still use my dissie one. I'll try to keep my movement to 6" now to avoid snapshooting as best I can and use cover rather than jinking. 36" range should still make it easy to line up some good shooting lanes.
I think the triple lance version has just become too inefficient. You're paying 145 for 3 lance shots where even if you don't move it you only average one hull point (on 12+ AV) and are sitting on armor 11. I pay 140 with my chaos army for 3 las cannons (one twin-linked) and sitting on 13 armor. | |
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Creeping Darkness Wych
Posts : 556 Join date : 2012-11-21
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 13:26 | |
| Yeah, some testing and scenario modelling is still required. But it certainly seems haywire scourges will be the new hotness. Are we still glad Razorwings got moved to Fast Attack? One other thing to note is the potential for an all-dissie Ravager to encourage an enemy unit to go to ground. 4-6 AP2 wounds should make many units, even (especially?) if already in 5+ cover, consider the extra cover save worthwhile. Since it appears we lost all of our already limited pinning weapons (unless I am missing some on my first read through?), having some way to get enemy heads down could be important. Dissie Ravagers can probably do it cheaper than scythe/implosion void ravens! _________________ The Dark Eldar and Dissynergy. 3d printed Dark Eldar bits on Shapeways. | |
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PainReaver Sybarite
Posts : 374 Join date : 2012-10-21
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sat Oct 04 2014, 15:30 | |
| I did some rolling to see the effectiveness of the Dissie Ravagers, and oh my lord, it actually does real damage. Like getting a lot of penetrating hits in addition to glances.
A couple of scourges + reavers i guess could handle Land Raiders. But generally the strategy works, but it has to be backed up with blasters or melta. | |
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Count Adhemar Dark Lord of Granbretan
Posts : 7610 Join date : 2012-04-26 Location : London
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sun Oct 05 2014, 00:15 | |
| - Massaen wrote:
- Ravagers are now correctly priced. They have been under priced for more than a decade!
LOL. Ravagers were just about worth considering with the old codex, despite the lackluster effect of lances. With the new codex changes (lance) ravagers are completely overpriced garbage. Given that we can have an ObjSec serpent with superior movement, firepower and survivability for the same price as a lance ravager there really is no comparison. _________________ You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting. In what world could you possibly beat me? | |
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amishprn86 Archon
Posts : 4436 Join date : 2014-10-04 Location : Ohio
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sun Oct 05 2014, 01:04 | |
| - Count Adhemar wrote:
- Massaen wrote:
- Ravagers are now correctly priced. They have been under priced for more than a decade!
LOL. Ravagers were just about worth considering with the old codex, despite the lackluster effect of lances. With the new codex changes (lance) ravagers are completely overpriced garbage. Given that we can have an ObjSec serpent with superior movement, firepower and survivability for the same price as a lance ravager there really is no comparison. No I dont even want to touch my 3 Lance Ravagers.. They will surly be shelved. | |
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PainReaver Sybarite
Posts : 374 Join date : 2012-10-21
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sun Oct 05 2014, 02:19 | |
| So is the community's verdict here weighing towards dissie ravagers? | |
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Aeterna Kabalite Warrior
Posts : 126 Join date : 2014-02-09 Location : Michigan
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sun Oct 05 2014, 02:34 | |
| I can see dissie ravagers taking a rise as AI with a base strength, would be good against low toughness armies, with a night shield and enhanced sails can do some nice work with jink, and 9 shots you get 1.5 hits with snap-shots. _________________ "Hear our call children of the void, listen to the screams of your brothers and sisters, see the raining ash from your home. Do you have what it takes to stand back up, or will you fall like so many before you." - Zorev Norterus, Archon of the Immortal Eclipse Kabal of the Immortal Eclipse | Coven of the Shadow Flesh | Cult of the Black Rage
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PainReaver Sybarite
Posts : 374 Join date : 2012-10-21
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sun Oct 05 2014, 02:41 | |
| Though I feel we still need DL ravagers backing up Heat Lances/Haywires against Land Raiders. | |
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Massaen Klaivex
Posts : 2268 Join date : 2011-07-05 Location : Western Australia
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sun Oct 05 2014, 02:53 | |
| I still think that the 3DL ravage has a place - light AT duties (rhinos and the like) are still fodder for it.
Its more expensive but still worth while - I think 1 3Dl ravage will still end up in most of my lists _________________ Objective Secured - Western Australia's Premier 40k Event Organisers and Website OBJECTIVE SECURED
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PainReaver Sybarite
Posts : 374 Join date : 2012-10-21
| Subject: Re: Ravagers, what to do with them now? Sun Oct 05 2014, 02:56 | |
| - Massaen wrote:
- I still think that the 3DL ravage has a place - light AT duties (rhinos and the like) are still fodder for it.
Its more expensive but still worth while - I think 1 3Dl ravage will still end up in most of my lists I might be just having one Dark Lance Ravager and one Disintegrator in my list: http://www.thedarkcity.net/t10070-1500-list-7e#111383 | |
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