Drazhar- how best to use him?

My fellow Archons,
greetings and salutations!

in building my elite units I've often wondered if I should include Drazhar.

I've yet to come across a single battle report that uses him.
has anyone seen him in action or how best to use him?

if anyone knows of any battle reports with him, I would like to see them.

thank you my fellow Lords for your time.

I think Thor should take this one...

sweetbacon wrote:

I think Thor should take this one...

Short answer - there's a reason why you've never seen him used...

The_Burning_Eye wrote:

sweetbacon wrote:

I think Thor should take this one...

Short answer - there's a reason why you've never seen him used...

The short answer is about correct.

I actually did a poll about this, where the theory question was 'if Draz cost 90 points would you take him?' and the poll was more-or-less a tie, and if anything the winner was 'no'. And when the poll is "you can take him for more than 50% off" and the answer is even remotely close to 'no' then it is a *bad* sign for the design of the character.

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t10451-drazhar-poll-would-he-be-worth-it-competitively-for-90-points

I also did a breakdown of him versus a Succubus w. Glaive and basically concluded she was the superior assault unit in basically every way. She also costs far less than he does.

Thor665 wrote:

He lacks assault grenades, he lacks adaptability, and he's very vulnerable to challenges by beatstick commanders (who are at about his point cost).

It's really the vulnerability to beatsticks that is his issue, because at nearly 200 points on his lonesome, I expect to have a character that will stomp in a face when needed. Look at what Lysander costs, or a Chapter Master on a Bike, or even a kitted Warboss, then compare them to Draz in combat. It is not overly favorable for the uber Incubus and those things are all in his ballpark of cost and don't have as many built in limitations - they can be used in multiple ways to boost a variety of assault units whilst Draz is left to lead Incubi or run solo. That's what's really dragging him down.

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Just as a thought, I had him assault a Succubus in cover with an Archite Glaive.

Without even figuring out her drug effect;
She swings first - 1.33 wounds to Draz.
Draz swings with 7.5 attacks (1.5 from rampage and using the extra swing rather than the damage boost from his klaives) 1.45 wounds to the Succubus.
She will generally win that fight on the 2nd or 3rd round and costs half what he does.

If she assaults him;
1.66 wounds from her the first round.
Draz does 6.5 attacks = 1.17 wounds to her.

Again, this doesn't use combat drugs, so most of the time (barring leadership and initiative rolls) she will actually be doing better. Also, yes, I did include his extra attacks on wounds of 6 in these numbers.

She also can join any unit unlike him, and has assault grenades and will get a Warlord trait.
The only loss is the Eternal Warrior thing - but I get a model that costs substantially less basically just for losing that.

I think Lelith would take him straight up.

What he performs better than them against is stuff that has T5+ *and* also has a 2-3+ armor save (as otherwise it's better to just shoot it with poison weaponry anyway) *and* that hopefully isn't in cover and/or has trouble with 2/3+ saves for him and his Incubi to mulch.

I consider that too narrow of an optimal target to be worth the points.
Basically it's bikes, like, that's what he helps with, as long as they aren't in cover, and he and his Incubi will suffer a bit against them in the Grav gun overwatch....but...eh. I'd rather have Grotesques jump bikes, personally, but that is about Draz's sweet spot.

I don't think that's worth it.

Just a thought regarding the bikes question - against grav gun overwatch the grots perform substantially better since they not only hit on '6's but since grots have such a poor saves they only wound on '6's too.

The one time DE armour rules is against grav spam! Drazhar is a cool model. If I get time for a game this week, I will run him for the second time. The first time he got shot to pieces bearing down on the Tau.

I mentioned this over on Dakka, but DE are the hard counter to Grav weaponry. I keep praying to see a Grav Censtar on the table across from me but it hasn't happened yet.

I see it more on bikes, myself.

Yeah, it is pretty amusing to see.

Thank you all for your replies.