Drazhar as HQ bad or not?

Hi to all devious minds. I am building my force up slowly and was looking through HQ choices, also spent time listening to splintermind (love it). What's people's opinion on drazhar, all views taken. I know he's expensive, but is a very powerful character too and has staying power. Was thinking him with incubi In a venom,deep strike and get them to cause mayhem. What are everyone's opinion and what do you use and why for HQ?

I haven't got any Incubi or Drazhar but it is worth noting that you can't charge the turn you deep strike (right?). Might be better, depending on your table, to instead rush up the table with it so you don't worry about scatter.

Apart from his cost I think he's good. But seriously, 190 points?! He's not worth anywhere near that. Just take 4-5 more Incubi for half the points and twice the killing power.

Fully understand, but what I was considering is that HQ can be a problem for us, and so this way problem, solved in a nice cc way too. What do you run as HQ?

How is HQ "a problem" for us? We can take a 10 points Lhamean to fill the HQ slot - that's pretty neat. And even though people like to complain about the Archon or Haemy, I think they are also solid HQ choices, as is the Succubus.

Speaking of which - why should we pay 190 points if we can just take a Succubus with Glaive? She is also a CC beatstick but cheaper than Drazhar whilst also bringing an AP2 weapon to the table.

Grumpy eldar wrote:

Fully understand, but what I was considering is that HQ can be a problem for us, and so this way problem, solved in a nice cc way too. What do you run as HQ?

I generally run a barebones Archon with WWP, a Succubus with Archite Glaive and Armour of Misery or a Lhamaean.

If I'd wanted an expensive ass kicking close combat HQ I'd take a fully geared archon. His only problem is Armour 2+ but apart from that he's fine.
But I only use that in high point games where the campaign requires the presence of my Kabal archon. In most cases, his subordinates get to do the dirty work.

Drazhar is fine, just badly over-priced. He doesn't really have a place in an optimized list at 190 points in my view.

That said, I have had a thought about making an Incubus Shrine army one day. That would have Drazhar plus three big units of Incubi at a bare minimum.

Thanks guys all brilliant ideas

Like all Phoenix Lords he's over priced but he's not bad. T4 and Eternal Warrior makes him a lot more survivable than a kitted out Succubus with the lack of an invuln being his big weakness (again, same for most Phoenix Lords) whilst S5, AP2 with Rampage at WS and I7 makes him quite killy. Run him with a squad of Incubi in a Venom and he'll do damage, outside of highly competitive games it'll work out nicely.

One of the problems with him is that he can ONLY join other Incubi. So that requires you to take 20 pt meat-shields, rather than 10 pt wyches (or w/e).

Yes you can put him with 4 other Incubi in a venom, but that unit will cost 305 pts barebones. For 350 you can take a DA with the 4+ FNP, rerolling 1's bubble that DS in with the WWP. You can guess which one I use.

fisheyes wrote:

One of the problems with him is that he can ONLY join other Incubi. So that requires you to take 20 pt meat-shields, rather than 10 pt wyches (or w/e).

Yes you can put him with 4 other Incubi in a venom, but that unit will cost 305 pts barebones. For 350 you can take a DA with the 4+ FNP, rerolling 1's bubble that DS in with the WWP. You can guess which one I use.

Why would anybody want to take Wyches though, they're useless whereas Incubi can actually do damage and against infantry probably more than the Dark Artisan can.

Because a 4++ save on every model can tarpit for quite a while if you're clever.

Quote :

Because a 4++ save on every model can tarpit for quite a while if you're clever.

Only against units that have either a small amount of attacks (Termis) or that aren't meant for CC. Any other dedicated CC unit will wipe the floor with the Wyches.

You need to take into account the fact that T3 means you're going to be taking more saves, so that 4++ won't last long. It's also worth remembering that FNP is much less valuable on a T3 model as S6+ is so common these days.

I've had success with drahzar but depends on who you're playing so he is kind of situational.
Archon w/ blaster and clone field in venom is my go to.

In the whopping one game I've played with Drazhar, he earned his points back challenging other HQs. The 2+ save was fantastic.

Then he and his Incubi died to massed bolter fire and SM assault. I think he scared the other player, so they threw the book at him. Which was still pretty useful, as it bought me a turn of picking away at the rest of their army unhindered.