Corsair Reavers Load-out

With the re-release of FW Corsairs, what is everyone equipping your reavers with?

Lasblasters in Venoms?
Jetpacks with brace of pistols?

I think with special rules that stack with jetpacks, brace of pistols is the way to go.

Your thoughts?

Not totally sure where I would go with them. I think it would depends on what I decide to take in the army.

I think just having a few 5 man reaver units for contesting and getting in the way would be a cheap useful way to use them. Or 5 reavers with special weapons in a objective secured, scouting falcon. Which might actually be a good idea. And the las blaster reavers in a cheap Venom could be useful. I like the idea of jump packs on reavers, but think if I decide to take jump lacks I will get some Eldar warp spiders from a min CAD or an aspect host.

Reavers seem pretty good, but I think the less is more approach is best. Or with falcons and that gives you some solid fire power. Especially if the reavers have blasters or fusion guns

stang wrote:

With the re-release of FW Corsairs, what is everyone equipping your reavers with?

Lasblasters in Venoms?
Jetpacks with brace of pistols?

I think with special rules that stack with jetpacks, brace of pistols is the way to go.

Your thoughts?

Well, whatever my intention, I'd definitely want to take advantage of their 2-per-5 special weapons. I'm thinking 2 Fusion Guns will be my staple, since they have the same range as their pistols (also the range of Reckless Abandon) and are vastly better than Blasters against vehicles. In terms of secondary weapons, I'm thinking Brace of Pistols over Lasbasters - mainly because I want those Shuriken shots. They also give me more versatility - with extra attacks and options of Splinter shots against high-toughness targets.

That being said, I might try a squad with Jetpacks and Blasters (with either Brace of Pistols or Lasblasters as secondary weapons), with the aim of staying a bit further away - even if it means only shooting the blasters.

Jetpacks vs Transports is a little more tricky. Jetpacks are cheaper and synergise better with Reckless Abandon. Transports are more expensive, but can act on their own, give greater mobility prior to disembarking (and on the turn the models disembark), and actually bring guns. Also, if you plan to start on the field, venoms should help you get into range for your first volley (or even assault, if you're bringing haywire grenades), and can also provide a bit of long-range firepower. No idea about Falcons because I don't own any.

Personally though, I love the idea of fielding an army with nothing but Jetbikes and Jetpacks, so that'll be the first thing I'll try:

Spoiler:

I have a couple of questions myself:

- How would you outfit a Corsair Baron to accompany them (other than giving him a Jetpack, if needed)?

- What do you guys think of Ghostwalkers? Any point taking them over Reavers?

I think you're paying 3 points a piece to turn jetpack reavers into jetpack snipers, and I definitely think that's worth it.

12 hour edit: Probably not on every unit though. Need some pistols for cc groups

Hence me being torn.
Options are awesome but I'm caught between jetpack pistoleers (with blasters) or the "Falcon-Five".

Since troops are vital, which are more efficient?

Here is my thinking :

Jet-packs are really just for deep striking units.  Compare jet packs and bikes and you'll see what I mean; bikes get better mobility, durability, and heavy weapon options for 5 more points.  What they lose is grenades and deep strike.

To me that adds up to jet-pack harassment units, deep striking while using pistols and melta guns.  If they come in within 12" of an enemy they can fire and then run 6+3d6 for cover or out of sight.  Compared to many deep striking units who just sort of have to stand there, or run a few inches - that's pretty awesome.

Bikes are more mid-field fire power that can grab objective quickly, but are more useful moving around the table laying down fire.

Lasblaster reaver bands are a cheap(er) way to plop wounds down on an objectives, and still swap shots with the guys coming to contest that objective.  This last group also has defensive grenades, and up to 40% of them can take flamers (or other special weapons).  Maxing out flamers though can be a pretty serious charge deterrent in itself.  If they manage to get through the "wall of death", they still won't get their charge bonus, and more than likely will strike last anyway.  

As for ghostwalkers with jetpacks and sniper rifles - I think I've cooled on them a bit.  They're paying for deep strike when they already have infiltrate and scout.  Relentless with sniper rifles is pretty neat, but at 18 points a piece you're not far off from the cost of a bike.  7 more points gets you a (better) relentless platform with 6 range 36" poison shots instead of 1.  Not the same I know, but worth considering.

I guess I'd have to play a few games to see if they'd be worthwhile.

There are so many options!

Reavers I'm liking 5 with 2 fusion deep striking but 10 deep striking with combat drugs seems like an option.

The jet bikes I'm thinking lances .

Or perhaps both?

Consider -

2 x 5 man jetpack units with blasters.
1 x 3 bikes with scatter lasers.

Thats a really mobile troop "core", with a low cost of 280.

The only thing it would lose out on would be falcon transports, but the lost firepower can be made up by 2 FA Pulse laser Hornets (also cheaper than the Falcons) - 160.

Hence (totally off-the-top-of-my-head), an additional scatter laser (from the bike), 2 additional pulse lasers (from the hornet) and 1 additional obsec unit (jet bikes) at only 20 points more (440) compared to 2 Falcon units with 6 man, 2 blasters each (420).

Thoughts?

stilgar27 wrote:

Here is my thinking :

Jet-packs are really just for deep striking units.  Compare jet packs and bikes and you'll see what I mean; bikes get better mobility, durability, and heavy weapon options for 5 more points.  What they lose is grenades and deep strike.

To me that adds up to jet-pack harassment units, deep striking while using pistols and melta guns.  If they come in within 12" of an enemy they can fire and then run 6+3d6 for cover or out of sight.  Compared to many deep striking units who just sort of have to stand there, or run a few inches - that's pretty awesome.

Bikes are more mid-field fire power that can grab objective quickly, but are more useful moving around the table laying down fire.

Good point, though it's worth noting that Reavers have access to different weapons than bikes (e.g. meltaguns), so I thought that was the reason you'd take them at all.

What are your thoughts with regard to Reavers in transports?

stilgar27 wrote:

As for ghostwalkers with jetpacks and sniper rifles - I think I've cooled on them a bit.  They're paying for deep strike when they already have infiltrate and scout.  Relentless with sniper rifles is pretty neat, but at 18 points a piece you're not far off from the cost of a bike.  7 more points gets you a (better) relentless platform with 6 range 36" poison shots instead of 1.  Not the same I know, but worth considering.

I guess I'd have to play a few games to see if they'd be worthwhile.

I think you're right about Ghostwalkers - 18pts is far too much for a single sniper shot (even a mobile one). Do you think they might be worth considering with any other loadout?

Skari wrote:

There are so many options!

Reavers I'm liking 5 with 2 fusion deep striking but 10 deep striking with combat drugs seems like an option.

The jet bikes I'm thinking lances .

Wouldn't one of the other weapon options be better on our Jetbikes? I ask because they pay 20pts for Dark Lances, compared to 15pts for Balestrike Bands.

With regard to Reavers, do you think 10 of those with combat drugs is better than 10 Voidstorm with combat drugs?

stang wrote:

Or perhaps both?

Consider -

2 x 5 man jetpack units with blasters.
1 x 3 bikes with scatter lasers.

Thats a really mobile troop "core", with a low cost of 280.

I think running some of each is a good idea (and is what I did in my list above). But, I think Fusion Guns would be better than blasters. That way, you're mixing long-range, high-volume S6 from the back (which can take out most transports and light tanks) with deep-striking meltaguns to take out AV13-14.

stang wrote:

The only thing it would lose out on would be falcon transports, but the lost firepower can be made up by 2 FA Pulse laser Hornets (also cheaper than the Falcons) - 160.

Hence (totally off-the-top-of-my-head), an additional scatter laser (from the bike), 2 additional pulse lasers (from the hornet) and 1 additional obsec unit (jet bikes) at only 20 points more (440) compared to 2 Falcon units with 6 man, 2 blasters each (420).

Thoughts?

The one thing I'm wondering is if it would be better to concentrate on either mech or Jetpacks/jetbikes. Firstly so that your opponent doesn't have easy targets for his anti-tank and anti-infantry weapons, and secondly so that your jetbikes/jetpacks can JSJ without leaving other elements of your army (which can't JSJ) at the mercy of your opponent. Basically, might it be better to either have hornets *and* Falcon squads, or else have neither and just use Jetbikes and Balestrikes to make up the lost firepower.

But, that's just theorycrafting as I really have no experience yet to base it on.

You can always mix the corsair reavers up a little bit. If you are taking fusions guns a jet packs then pistols can be a good way to go. For units that you want to hangout back a bit more than I would say blasters and lasblasters.

I know pistols can do some solid work at close range, but then you are exposing you troops and more likely to get shot up and assaulted. Reckless is good, but it can easily put you out of pistol range right away. So that is something to consider. But them kind of rending shots sure can be awesome.
I think that overall I prefer lasblasters because you can't always get to be within point blank range like you need to be with pistols. But pistols have their place.

I have warmed to ghostwalkers and think they are worth the 2 extra points over the reavers. 3 points if you add sniper. Having infiltrate, scout and stealth (and move through cover?) can be great. They are great back field units or can slowly advance in cover with stealth when required. I would keep them cheap and avoid jet packs. Too many points.

And I think a mix of troops is a good idea for corsairs. Just ask yourself what do you want you army to do. How will you deal with tanks, GMCs, mec, tac, 2+ armoured whatevers, death stars etc...
What do you want in the rest of you army? What purpose do your characters have? Hornets? Warp hunters? Eldar allies (CAD) for that sweet sweet Wraithknight?

For me I plan on running 1-2 units of ghost walkers, 1-3 scatter bikes, 1 naked bike just for scoring. And maybe 1-2 reaver bands either with jetpacks and either fusion or blasters, or in a transport.
I have 2 hornets and a warp hunter so will run those for sure.

colinsherlow wrote:

 Reckless is good, but it can easily put you out of pistol range right away.

Sorry, could you elaborate on this?

Just that pistoles and melta have a 12" range. If you use reckless and the jump move it can be easy to put your jet troops out of an effective shooting range for the next turn. if they don't move very far then they will be shot at easier and more likely to get assaulted. It's still really good just sometime I prefer to stay more than an arms length away. I do however think that it is often very necessary to get into your opponents grills, so have a unit or two with the fusion/pistol build can be great. Terrain is obviously a factor as well, but you don't know what that will be until after you write your list.
My only real concern is in taking most of the corsairs with the fusion/pistol/jet pack. You have to engage really close to your opponent with a good chunk of the army. Corsairs are squishy so that could go bad real fast. And most lists have some sort of fast units or units in transports that can easily close the gap.
That being said. 1-2 units like this could definitely get some work done for you.
I will be giving the different builds a good try and see which I prefer.

We will only really know how a few good test runs.

I thought about this myself - we move further after we shoot than we can before we shoot and it wouldn't be hard to put yourself back out of pistol range just running for cover.  For this reason I'm building a few jet-pack blaster troops to experiment with as well.  I think 18" range should be enough for those times we come up short, and the assault move is still there even if we don't get within 12".

I'm also considering a 10 man Pistol and jet-pack units with 4 flamers as well as haywire grenades.  I realize it's a big investment (well 195 points), but they should be more versatile while still taking advantage of the "come at me bro" of wall of death, defensive grenades, and their high initiative.  Tearing down a dreadnought or two in melee or torching open top transports full of troops would be beautiful as well.

The question remains - Titan breaker or sky burners?

They would also present plenty of wounds for a jet-pack baron or prince to hide in.

I'm thinking Sky Burners. Titan Breakers seems to offer a meagre bonus, whereas Sky Burners drastically reduces the main issues with deep-striking.

With regard to Haywire Grenades, do you think there's any benefit in doing with Reavers what DE used to do with wyches (5 in a Venom with haywire grenades that try to assault an enemy vehicle ASAP)?

In terms of the range issue, I'm not really sure what to do. I mean, I can take some Reaver units with 2 Blasters and Lasblasters for a longer threat range, but what about stuff like Barons/Princes, Malevolents and Voidstorms? Stuff that is not only lacking in long-range weapons, but also wants to get into melee.

I like titan breakers and sky burners a lot. There are plenty on tanks and walkers in the game to make it worth it. I will play both coteries and assign units appropriately.

colinsherlow wrote:

There are plenty on tanks and walkers in the game to make it worth it.

Do you think rerolling 1s to hit against tanks/walkers is that good?

EDIT: Oh, one other thing with regard to the Coterie bonuses - does "all infantry and jetbikes" include Jet Pack Infantry?

It's re-roll 1s to hit and 1's for armour pen.  It really goes a long ways. Re rerolls are king.  And reroll have your misses and some armour pen trolls makes a different. Especially when your dice decide to go sour on you.

Edit: Sorry not for pen rolls. Re rolls 1's to wounds. Which doesn't matter in this case

colinsherlow wrote:

It's re-roll 1s to hit and 1's for armour pen.  

You don't get to reroll 1s for armour penetration. Preferred enemy only lets you reroll 1s on to-wound rolls.

Honestly, I have no idea why they even made it Preferred Enemy, since you can never get the 'reroll 1s to-wound' part.

Haywire grenades are a fixed cost per unit, and that cost is pretty high at 25 points.  A large unit of 10 or more is really the only place I'd consider them, as only a venom's worth of haywire grenades would end up costing you 5 points per model.

Void burners is probably the more reliable coterie in this case, hitting rear armor more reliably is no good if you can't first get into a position to hit it.  Preferred enemy does effect melee attacks too, which is why I was considering it, but 11 haywire grenades should destroy or disable most anything anyway, even without what amounts to ws/bs 5.

I love haywire grenades, but tend to shy away as the units start getting too expensive. Maybe on a suicide unit if I have a few points to spare or regularly play someone with a bazillion dreadnoughts.

Okay.

Any thoughts on Tanglefield Grenades?

If I knew what they did I might have some thoughts

They're thrown grenades, S2 AP-, Small blast.

Any unit hit must pass a strength test or have its WS and I halved until the end of it's controllers next turn.

Characters, Reavers ad most other units can take them for 10pts.

Sound like a good idea if you're planning on getting into assault or if the enemy unit wants to get into assault. I'd probably forget I had them until about an hour after the game.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Sound like a good idea if you're planning on getting into assault or if the enemy unit wants to get into assault. I'd probably forget I had them until about an hour after the game.

Yeah, I can see myself forgetting them as well.

Incidentally, Corsairs seem really well stocked on the grenades front. We have Plasma grenades, Shadowwave grenades, Tanglefield grenades, Haywire grenades, melta bombs and Dissonance breach charges.