Adepticon Overview

Hm...

Do you think a raider list like you had with wyches could have worked out, or does their complete lack of AP and splinter cannons pretty much make them currently fall on their faces?

I had an idea with taking a succubus and Hexatrice with haywire, as well as some melee killing potential, in raiders and support them with some reavers as they have hit and run as well as AT options.

Meanwhile, I'd take heavy sturdy support options to walk up field and help out. Just a thought.

I know this isn't really the thread to theorycraft lists, but, you seem to have done fairly well and I'm just wondering based on your experiences with tourney lists, how would you make a cult list if you had to show up with one?

I think wyches are severely overpriced and underpowered. At what they are/can do right now, I would put them in the 4 point range.. Seriously. They have a ton of stuff that is just "bad" about them, and only one thing good (4++ in combat). Combat drugs are mediocre at best.
They have no shooting to speak of, cost more than warriors (who have a better save vs shooting, better shooting, better weapon upgrages, etc....), and will struggle in Hand to Hand, what they are designed to do.
Ugh.
It hurts to even think about them..

But if I HAD to do a wych cult, i would take 2 succubi in raiders with 9 wyches, 2 more units of 10 in raiders, 2 units in venoms, all upgraded to haywire, if you take a weapon, Hydra is the only way to go.

To offset the complete lack of poison, I would take (shudder) hellions.
Yeah, go ahead and laugh, but hellions (large units only) that deep strike in can lay out a ton of poison shots.. I would ONLY deepstrike them, never start them on the board, and hope for +1A or +1 str to make them even viable in HTH. By the time the hellions are there, your aether sail raiders are in their lines ready to drop the Wyches. they may ignore the hellions at that point.

Jetbikes go without saying, and max caltrops. i would never upgrade to shooting because you should scream "JINK!" at your opponent if he even looks in the direction of your bikes! If you can ally in an autarch w/banshee mask and shard, so much the better. Beware of Tau markerlights, flamers, Dark Reapers and waveserpents though.

So, Pretty much, you need to hope to go first, because if your raiders drop and your wyches are walking, you may as well start packing up.
Go first, aethersail into his lines, keep the venoms back near your objectives to rush out as needed, jetbikes where they can multicharge the next turn...
Your opponent may panic seeing 4 raiders with 10 wyches each in his face before he even got to move, a unit of jetbikes that can tie up multiple units, all will jink if shot at, and the next turn, hellions may be dropping in. Decent shooting, Depending on the drug decent combat, good movement... venoms in the back shooting everything... It has a chance to win versus a lot of opponents. Especially if your opponent panics. People make stupid choices when they panic.

So if I played Wyches, that is the direction i would go.

Thank you for the response.

I was just curious, but, that sounds fairly solid given the limitations.

Not saying I'm going to go out of my way and buy the units...I might just wait to buy new things until the next codex.

Very good showing at Adepticon and thanks for sharing some wisdom!

I agree, very impressive results with DE

I've had a little success with MSU, but not much. 2 of the armies I struggled with at a 1500 point tournament was Orks and Daemons.

The Ork list consisted of 3 large bike units with 3+ cover as far as I remember due to the ork bike rule, and a fnp on top of that as there was a pain dok in all 3 units. Furthermore, he had 8-9 of those one-shot large blast S8 AP3 ignores cover templates. So first turn he killed 50+% of my vehicles, and I had nothing that could kill the bikes in any significant numbers due to their double saves.

Vs. the Daemons I had a similar problem; Fateweaver, large dog blob with herald, screamers with a tzerald, horrors with heralds. Lots of warp charge dice.

First turn; he grimoired the dog blob and cast cursed earth and summoned some units. The summoned units were not the problem.

The dog-blob was the real problem as I had nothing that could get through the 2++ saves fast enough, and they took up so much space that I couldn't avoid a charge (hammer and anvil, though the other deployment types wouldn't have helped much either).

So based on that, how do you deal with fast assault armies with good saves like that?

The codex needs an update, we're behind on certain aspects, corsair rules have DLs at 15 pts for example, while our codex ones cost us 25 pts. Decurion type detachement with a good detachement rule like craftworld or necrons got, formations that would boost certain units, squadrons for vehicles. These demands are wishlisting, they're things all newer books got.

The wishlisting would be to make certain units better (like mot wych units), adapt points (like cheaper ravager for example)

An update in the form of a digital release, campaign book, or fully updated codex, it's all welcome, I hope to get up to speed with other armies then.

Most books were updated within a year or two, we're slowly going towards year 2, it's our time.

If We truly get free raiders thanks to some formation or detachement, THAT would be a serious BS game changer. Our raiders are way better than getting a free rhino or razorback.

In the case of the dog blob, if they are at 2++ you can just focus fire, or if you feel there is no hope with that, jump out and line up making it impossible for the dogs to reach the vehicles... Sacrafice pawns to win the game. Slowly feed them and prevent the multi charge and you may pull it out, but yeah, that is an uphill climb to be sure.