DE and Knights, do they blend?

So, I'm torn.

On one side, I want to play DE. On the other, I really hate our AT options. Then again, on the upside I love the idea of a wych theme knight providing AT and right now I'm not seeing the downside....especially if it draws attention away from my squishy units.

I'm thinking of running a Knight Crusader. All the ranged firepower we want in a sturdy package. I also am toying running it with a CTC and reavers or beast packs...not sure just yet.

Any thoughts or ideas?

If I drop the idea of having a CTC I get something along the lines of....


+++ DE (1845pts) +++

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Grotesquerie
····Grotesques
········Aberration [Agoniser, Flesh Gauntlet, Gnarlskin]
········Grotesque [Close combat weapon, Flesh Gauntlet, Gnarlskin]
········Grotesque [Close combat weapon, Flesh Gauntlet, Gnarlskin]
········Raider [Disintegrator]
····Grotesques
········Aberration [Agoniser, Flesh Gauntlet, Gnarlskin]
········Grotesque [Close combat weapon, Flesh Gauntlet, Gnarlskin]
········Grotesque [Close combat weapon, Flesh Gauntlet, Gnarlskin]
········Raider [Disintegrator]
····Haemonculus [Close combat weapon, Gnarlskin, Scissorhand, Splinter Pistol, The Panacea Perverted]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Succubus [Archite glaive, Haywire Grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter pistol, The Armour of Misery, Wychsuit]

+ Troops +

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Hekatrix [Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol]
····Raider [Disintegrator cannon]
····8x Wych [8x Plasma Grenades, 8x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Hekatrix [Close Combat Weapon, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol]
····Raider [Disintegrator cannon, Enhanced Aethersails]
····9x Wych [9x Plasma Grenades, 9x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

+ Fast Attack +

Beastmasters [6x Clawed Fiend]
····Beastmaster [Agoniser, Wychsuit]
········Beastmaster Skyboard [Splinter Pods]

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [ Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod, Warlord/Lord Baron]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

And with the CTC.

+++ DE knight (1847pts) +++

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Court of the Archon
····Lhameans [Kabalite Armour, Shaimeshi blade, Splinter Pistol]

+ Elites +

Incubi [Incubus Warsuit]
····4x Incubi [4x Klaive]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops +

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····4x Reaver [4x Bladevanes, 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Splinter pistol]
········4x Reaver jetbike [4x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····4x Reaver [4x Bladevanes, 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Splinter pistol]
········4x Reaver jetbike [4x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (IK Oathsworn Detachment) ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [ Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

I was just told the court doesn't have independent character...if this is accurate, let me know. I'll be working a new list in there.

Added another unit of Reavers, with an Arena champ with an agonizer as HQ. Not sure if I can make the arena champ the one with the blaster and caltrops so I can do lookout sir rolls....


+++ DE knight (1847pts) +++

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ Troops +

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····4x Reaver [4x Bladevanes, 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Splinter pistol]
········4x Reaver jetbike [4x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····4x Reaver [4x Bladevanes, 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Splinter pistol]
········4x Reaver jetbike [4x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····Arena Champion [Agoniser, Bladevanes, Splinter pistol]
········Reaver jetbike [Splinter Rifle]
····3x Reaver [3x Bladevanes, 3x Close combat weapon, 3x Splinter pistol]
········3x Reaver jetbike [3x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (IK Oathsworn Detachment) ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [ Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod]

Korazell wrote:

I was just told the court doesn't have independent character...if this is accurate, let me know. I'll be working a new list in there.

That is correct - the Court are an HQ choice, but none of them have the IC rule.

Bummer. I also didn't realize the difference between warlord and HQ. So my reaver Arena champ cannot be my hq. A simple fix would be dropping a heat lance on the reavers or caltrops and just getting a court to footslog and have the arena be my warlord.

Here is an updated list, more punch, footslogging laem that is just gonna hide the whole game because I'd rather have reavers than an extra venom.

+++ Cult of Bliss bereaved (1848pts) +++

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (IK Oathsworn Detachment) ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [ Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod]

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon
····Lhameans [Kabalite Armour, Shaimeshi blade, Splinter Pistol]

+ Troops +

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····4x Reaver [4x Bladevanes, 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Splinter pistol]
········4x Reaver jetbike [4x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····4x Reaver [4x Bladevanes, 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Splinter pistol]
········4x Reaver jetbike [4x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, Wychsuit]
····4x Reaver [4x Bladevanes, 4x Close combat weapon, 4x Splinter pistol]
········4x Reaver jetbike [4x Splinter Rifle]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models) [Bladevanes, Close combat weapon]
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

One thing no one has mentioned(and I apologize for not mentioning it earlier - been out of town), is that you'll be suffering from the "One eye open" special rule.

This means that at the beginning of every one of your turns, you must roll a D6 for each unit that is within 6 inches of the knight, and for the knight as well if it's within 6 inches of a DE unit. Each unit that rolls a "1" may not do ANYTHING that turn.

Now, this doesn't destroy your list idea. It's just something you have to keep in mind when both designing the list and playing it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That said, I'm not altogether sure how this list would perform, to be honest. It's not often that I say that. Part of it is that I don't know the rules for the crusader.

I can't help feeling, however, that against an opponent like Tau if they were to go first, you'd potentially start your first turn with only a CTC and Knight left on the table.

I think maybe having both the knight AND the CTC might be a bit much due to the significant points requirement it takes. But I could be wrong. Maybe it's just the added additional expense of the reavers that does it for me. Either way, I feel like your overall unit count is really low here, with half of what IS here being low toughness stuff.

But again, I feel like I'd like to see it played. I just don't want to give the list high praise and see people buy all the models only to find out that my reservations weren't unfounded.

What do you think?

So, something that didn't get updates is we've been speaking about it in chat. The one eye open rule isn't really a big deal to me, I even have fluff explanations for it which I think are super cool.

The reavers are...more or less in there because I like them. I also tried the list with adding more troops and venoms and spreading them out with wyches and I can get a good amount of venoms jammed in, I think I got away with four more. The problem is I think I don't know how much AT to take....

The Crusader has a 12 shots of str 8 ap 3 rending, 3 str 8 ap 3, 2 large blast ordanace str8 loonnngg range shot, 6 heavy stubber shots, a heavy flamer, 13/12/12 6 hp, 4++ save.

With no reavers, I end up with this...and yes I understand people hate the bomber, I like it. And if I dropped it, I still could only get one more venom with troops and end up with no clue what to do with the remaining points.

+++ Cult of Bliss bereaved (1850pts) +++

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (IK Oathsworn Detachment) ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [ Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod]

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon
····Lhameans [Kabalite Armour, Shaimeshi blade, Splinter Pistol]

+ Troops +

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

+ Heavy Support +

Voidraven Bomber [Two dark scythes, Two shatterfield missiles and two implosion missiles, Void Mine]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

I could do this instead of the bomber...but...ehhhh....

+++ Cult of Bliss bereaved (1820pts) +++

++ Imperial Knights: Codex (2015) (IK Oathsworn Detachment) ++

+ Lord of War +

Knight Crusader [ Rapid-fire Battle Cannon w/ Heavy Stubber, Avenger Gatling Cannon w/ Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber, Stormspear Rocket Pod]

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]
····Talos [Armoured Carapace, Close Combat Weapon, Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon
····Lhameans [Kabalite Armour, Shaimeshi blade, Splinter Pistol]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops +

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Wyches [Wychsuit]
····Venom [Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon, Splinter Cannon]
····5x Wych [5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon]

Created with BattleScribe (http://www.battlescribe.net)

You know, I really hate looking at battlescribe lists...haha, they're just soooo spammy.

So much space taken up for what could look like this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oathsworn Detachment
1 Knight Crusader

CTC Formation
5 Talos w/ 5 ichor injectors & 5 twin-linked haywire blasters

CAD
1 Lhamean in a dual cannon venom
5x 5 wyches in dual cannon venom

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Speaking of which, it took me typing that out to catch that it didn't say warriors....why the wyches?

Why the wyches? Because I'm a cult, not a kabal. Simple as that. That's why I liked the reavers in the list for CC and AT. I'm still not sure if I like the idea of more venoms, but, I can see why you'd want more bodies on the ground than just two squads of five.

I think I might like the reaver list more. Not sure yet. Of these lists, what models DON'T you have?

Honestly I'm only missing twelve reavers and the hq.

You have the knight crusader already?

If so, go for it. May as well try it out. 12 reavers isn't exactly a small investment, but reavers are good for so many lists that I don't have any reservations about suggesting buying some.

I have two imperial knights on the way. One to paint and sell, the other was a good deal. I paid 80 for both, soooooooo.....

I'll get to test my list soon! What sort of lists would you like me to test it against?

Any and all that you can. Preferably competitive lists.

Well, what exactly does that mean? Any CWE lists I see? I haven't really played too much, so, not sure.

There are far too many for me to even begin. Finding good, competitive players would be the first start. If they're both of those things, you can be fairly certain whatever list they bring will fit the bill.