1500pts Kabal + Coven

Messing around with a Kabal list that includes some Grotesques:

Poison Tongue Kabal Battalion (+5CP)
Archon (Huskblade, Splinter Pistol, Soul Seeker) – 76 (Warlord: Soul Thirst)
Archon (Agoniser, Blast Pistol, PGL) – 87
2 Lhamaeans – 30
5 Kabalite Warriors (Blaster, Agoniser, PGL) – 54
- Venom (2x Splinter Cannon) – 75
5 Kabalite Warriors (Blaster, Agoniser, PGL) – 54
- Venom (2x Splinter Cannon) – 75
5 Kabalite Warriors (Blaster, Agoniser) – 51
- Venom (2x Splinter Cannon) – 75
5 Scourges (4x Blaster) – 128
5 Scourges (4x Haywire Blaster) – 92
Ravager (3x Disintegrator) – 125
Raider (Dark Lance) – 85 (Mandrakes)
Raider (Dark Lance) – 85 (Grotesques)
Raider (Dark Lance) – 85 (Grotesques)
1129pts

Prophets of Flesh Coven Vanguard (1CP)
Haemonculus (Electrocorrosive Whip, Hexrifle) – 81 (Warlord: Diabolical Soothsayer)
3 Grotesques – 105
3 Grotesques – 105
5 Mandrakes – 80
371pts

1500pts (9/7CP)

The warlord-Archon goes with the Mandrakes, the other Archon and the Haemonculus each go with one of the Grotesque units. The Lhamaeans also each go with a Grotesque unit - mainly to take the fall if their transports are destroyed. The Scourges will deep strike.

I'd like to use 4-man Grotesque units, but I don't have enough models. Do you think 2 units of 3 is enough?

In terms of Relics, I want to have the Soul Seeker on my Warlord, but I'm indifferent after that. Do you think the Vexator Mask is an okay choice, or would I be better off with the Djin Blade or maybe the Helm of Spite?

Any other suggestions?

Soulless Samurai wrote:

I'd like to use 4-man Grotesque units, but I don't have enough models. Do you think 2 units of 3 is enough?

Unfortunately i've not played with Grotesques yet, but when I have been thinking about them and how to move them around I favoured 4 man units since putting that on a Raider only meant 2 unused transport spaces. Running 3 means you have 4 free spaces and there isn't much you can fill that up with as most minimum unit sizes are 5. I'd be interested to hear how the x2 3 man units of Grotesques perform in your game.

The other thing to consider is putting a multiwound unit on a transport is dangerous should the transport get destroyed before unloading. A roll of 1 will have you lose a grotesque, that's harsh. Best save a CP for a reroll and hope you dont roll more than one 1.

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Looks like you have a nice spread of AV weapons and with the way your list is built I can see your opponents having trouble with target priority.

Can I ask what your thinking is behind transporting mandrakes on a raider instead of deep striking them? Had the beta rules changed this for you? I never really considered putting mandrakes on transports so thanks for getting me thinking about a new way to use this unit.

NihilisticGod wrote:

Unfortunately i've not played with Grotesques yet, but when I have been thinking about them and how to move them around I favoured 4 man units since putting that on a Raider only meant 2 unused transport spaces. Running 3 means you have 4 free spaces and there isn't much you can fill that up with as most minimum unit sizes are 5. I'd be interested to hear how the x2 3 man units of Grotesques perform in your game.

Yeah, I'd prefer to have 2 units of 4, but I only have 6 models at the moment.

That said, I do like taking minimum units where possible.

NihilisticGod wrote:

The other thing to consider is putting a multiwound unit on a transport is dangerous should the transport get destroyed before unloading. A roll of 1 will have you lose a grotesque, that's harsh. Best save a CP for a reroll and hope you dont roll more than one 1.

Yeah, that's what the Lhamaeans are for - to take the fall if I roll a 1. I know they're technically multi-wound units as well, but far less valuable/expensive ones than Grotesques or HQs.

You're right, though, there's still an element of risk involved.

NihilisticGod wrote:

Looks like you have a nice spread of AV weapons and with the way your list is built I can see your opponents having trouble with target priority.

Thanks. I try to build lists that don't have any really big threats/targets - just a lot of little ones.

I also just like having a lot of stuff on the field.

NihilisticGod wrote:

Can I ask what your thinking is behind transporting mandrakes on a raider instead of deep striking them? Had the beta rules changed this for you? I never really considered putting mandrakes on transports so thanks for getting me thinking about a new way to use this unit.

Sure. The reason is that I was looking for a unit to accompany my more shooty HQ. I wanted a unit that could do both shooting and melee, and Mandrakes seemed like a good choice. Their weapons have the same range as the Soul Seeker pistol and their melee attacks have the same strength as his Huskblade.

I've actually been trying this in a different list, using Retrofire Jets to deep strike in the entire Raider. Does use a CP (though it allows the transport and HQ to deep strike as well), but one nice thing is that they're pretty well protected from enemy fire, and often in a good position to assault out of the Raider in my turn. It also makes them a lot more mobile if I want to reposition them next turn.

Not sure yet whether I like the idea.

I guess it feels like a waste of a CP since Mandrakes have a unit ability that allows them to deep strike.  

Using them to accompany your HQ is a neat idea, they are pretty good at both shooting and melee, and their shrouded from sight ability helps them in both situations. When I first got the index I used to run a 10 Mandrake unit in my list and they had a good impact on the game when they arrived via deep strike, so long as I could select effective targets to shoot and attempt to charge. The latter of which I can't count on happening even with a re-roll from Eager to Flay. I found that in smaller numbers, units of mandrakes were severly restricted on what targets they would have an impact against. I know this is an obvious fact for most units but with Mandrakes I eventually dropped them from my game entirely opting to spend the points elsewhere. You might feel the same with only 5 on the board.

This is why I found it interesting when you talked about putting them on a raider. Having 10 mandrakes on a raider or 2 venoms would be nasty. Spitting out 20 balebast shots at 18" and when their transport dies they can charge as they are effective in melee too. I might try this some time.

Your list looks like it will be fun to play and annoying to face

NihilisticGod wrote:

I guess it feels like a waste of a CP since Mandrakes have a unit ability that allows them to deep strike.

Yeah, it does seem a little wasteful. I'll see how it goes. I might well decide that they should just start on the board.

NihilisticGod wrote:

Using them to accompany your HQ is a neat idea, they are pretty good at both shooting and melee, and their shrouded from sight ability helps them in both situations.

Thanks. The only sad thing is that the Archon's aura doesn't work on them.

NihilisticGod wrote:

When I first got the index I used to run a 10 Mandrake unit in my list and they had a good impact on the game when they arrived via deep strike, so long as I could select effective targets to shoot and attempt to charge. The latter of which I can't count on happening even with a re-roll from Eager to Flay. I found that in smaller numbers, units of mandrakes were severly restricted on what targets they would have an impact against. I know this is an obvious fact for most units but with Mandrakes I eventually dropped them from my game entirely opting to spend the points elsewhere. You might feel the same with only 5 on the board.

Well, part of the reason why I'm using them is to fill out the last slot in the Vanguard. But you're right, 5 may not have much of an impact. I'll have to see if having a HQ makes up for it or not.

NihilisticGod wrote:

This is why I found it interesting when you talked about putting them on a raider. Having 10 mandrakes on a raider or 2 venoms would be nasty. Spitting out 20 balebast shots at 18" and when their transport dies they can charge as they are effective in melee too. I might try this some time.

Having a couple of squads of them in Venoms a nice idea. I think I'll try this when I next play a pure-Kabalite list.

NihilisticGod wrote:

Your list looks like it will be fun to play and annoying to face

Music to my ears.


Thanks for your feedback and suggestions.