Tactics vs AdMech gunline

So I'm going to be playing a 2k game against AdMech sometime next weekend. I don't know too many of the details of his list, save that he has declared he will most likely be running a gunline brigade, with plenty of Onagers, Robots, and Cawl (plus I wouldn't be surprised if he brings a Knight or two). I also suspect he may be bringing Infiltrators, or Priests, or both.

Given that I have no experience fighting AdMech, do any of you have any advice for taking them on?

P.S. I'm debating on one of the following lists to fight his cogboys with:

List 1:

List 2: similar to above, but as more of a classic Meat Mountain:

List 2:

Some questions going in, for both lists:

-Would Scourges with haywire blasters be worth it?
-For the first list, should I ditch something for a 3rd Ravager?
-Given that I'll be up against a gunline list, should I go for Black Heart over Flayed Skull, or do you think Flayed Skull should be okay?
-Obviously, is there a preference for either list?

Furthermore, some tactical question vs AdMech:
-What should take target priority? I'm thinking Icarus Onagers first, the Robots/Knights, then everything else?
-Against AdMech, what would be better, dark lances or dissies?
-Anything else I should watch out for? AdMech is, as I said, completely new to me.

Target the robots and Icarus Onagers first. If he has kataphron destoyers, hit them as well - poison will work fine against them. You'll probably want to focus dissies/darklight on the vehicles first though.

I would suggest Black Heart spearhead with ravagers, and Flayed Skull for any other kabalites. Ignoring cover will be useful for clearing out all of his troop units with poison. If he plays the strat that gives +1 to hit w/ both robots and destroyers, you'll want to AoV that.

krayd wrote:

Target the robots and Icarus Onagers first. If he has kataphron destoyers, hit them as well - poison will work fine against them. You'll probably want to focus dissies/darklight on the vehicles first though.  

I would suggest Black Heart spearhead with ravagers, and Flayed Skull for any other kabalites. Ignoring cover will be useful for clearing out all of his troop units with poison. If he plays the strat that gives +1 to hit w/ both robots and destroyers, you'll want to AoV that.

That would be difficult, but doable. Certainly, I'd have to sacrifice something in either list to make room for a Black Heart Archon (who, obviously, would become the warlord). Alternatively, I could just run my Kabal purely as Black Heart...which would be interesting, as I've only ever run Flayed Skull up until this point (for me, the speed boost, ignoring cover and rerolls on splinter cannons have always outweighed 6+ FNP on vehicles and AoV, but then I've rarely faced truly competitive lists either)

A few other things I'm wondering, in general:
-1. Dark lances vs disintegrators vs AdMech: which to use? I know that people generally prefer disintegrators for their affordability and reliability, but would dark lances be preferable at all, given the number of walkers/robots I may be up against?
-2. Would it be worth it to shave points to get another Venom or Raider, just so that my Archons can have a ride?
-3. Would Reavers be worth taking vs AdMech? I'm thinking that if I can tie up his gunline (especially his Robots!) in close combat early on, then they might pay for themselves even if they die horrendously later on. I usually take Mandrakes, but while I'm sure they would mow through Skitarii with no difficulty (and might also be able to handle his CC counterpunch units, like Infiltrators/Priests), they will certainly struggle against the AdMech walkers, which will be my biggest headache.

Well, the robots will be starting the game with a 4+ invul save, I believe. That makes them more vulnerable to weapons that will force multiple saves, like disintegrators, while dark lances will be more risky to use on them.

I hate going up against the robots. I usually either ignore them or try to tag them with a no overwatch charge. Shooting them is tricky because if they use their invuln, on 6s they hit you back with a mortal wound. If you're set on shooting them haywire is your best bet. They're vehicles so you do mws to them, and because it's only -1, their armour save is better than their invuln so they have to choose to either use their better save or try to hurt you on the way down.

Sent from Topic'it App

I played against AdMech at the London GT last year. Never played them before, didn't have a clue what any of their units did and got absolutely murdered!

Gorgon wrote:

I hate going up against the robots. I usually either ignore them or try to tag them with a no overwatch charge. Shooting them is tricky because if they use their invuln, on 6s they hit you back with a mortal wound. If you're set on shooting them haywire is your best bet. They're vehicles so you do mws to them,  and because it's only -1, their armour save is better than their invuln so they have to choose to either use their better save or try to hurt you on the way down.

The robots are not a unit that you want to ignore, unless you can trick your opponent into popping Protector Protocol somewhere out of range of where you want to be. Otherwise, he's dishing out 18 S6 AP -2 shots *per robot* at 36" (because triple phosphor blasters is all that you are going to see in a competitive setting), which is not at all good for DE.

krayd wrote:

Gorgon wrote:

I hate going up against the robots. I usually either ignore them or try to tag them with a no overwatch charge. Shooting them is tricky because if they use their invuln, on 6s they hit you back with a mortal wound. If you're set on shooting them haywire is your best bet. They're vehicles so you do mws to them,  and because it's only -1, their armour save is better than their invuln so they have to choose to either use their better save or try to hurt you on the way down.

The robots are not a unit that you want to ignore, unless you can trick your opponent into popping Protector Protocol somewhere out of range of where you want to be. Otherwise, he's dishing out 18 S6 AP -2 shots *per robot* at 36" (because triple phosphor blasters is all that you are going to see in a competitive setting), which is not at all good for DE.

Okay, that's just terrifying. I'm not even sure shooting them will be enough, given how many wounds they have. At this rate, my best bet, I think, will be to get something in close combat with them.

Also, as this will be part of a larger narrative event we're both taking place in, I think we'll be playing the Ambush scenario from the main rulebook (with me as attacker). That may give me an edge, unless he seizes the initiative...though the last thing I want to do is underestimate the AdMech because of this.

Regarding the robots, wouldn't Dark Lances be a better bet than Disintegrators?

Given that the latter requires more invulnerable save rolls, it seems like you're much more likely to have hits reflected back at you (in the form of Mortal Wounds).

krayd wrote:

Gorgon wrote:

I hate going up against the robots. I usually either ignore them or try to tag them with a no overwatch charge. Shooting them is tricky because if they use their invuln, on 6s they hit you back with a mortal wound. If you're set on shooting them haywire is your best bet. They're vehicles so you do mws to them,  and because it's only -1, their armour save is better than their invuln so they have to choose to either use their better save or try to hurt you on the way down.

The robots are not a unit that you want to ignore, unless you can trick your opponent into popping Protector Protocol somewhere out of range of where you want to be. Otherwise, he's dishing out 18 S6 AP -2 shots *per robot* at 36" (because triple phosphor blasters is all that you are going to see in a competitive setting), which is not at all good for DE.

If he's doing that then it means the robots only have a 3+/5++ save - so Poison should work wonders against them.

I thought the Robots were vehicles, though, and thus are only wounded on 6s by poison?

Scyrex Deledras wrote:

I thought the Robots were vehicles, though, and thus are only wounded on 6s by poison?

Oh nevermind. I didn't realise 8th had made them vehicles.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Scyrex Deledras wrote:

I thought the Robots were vehicles, though, and thus are only wounded on 6s by poison?

Oh nevermind. I didn't realise 8th had made them vehicles.

Yup. Vehicles.

I did run into AdMech last weekend at a GT. I took the robots out with 3 ravagers with disintegrator cannons. They're only 6 wounds each. I got first turn, so I didn't give them an opportunity to shoot back.

I still think that dissies will be better against the robots. While there is a greater opportunity to reflect mortal wounds back (1 per save of 6 rolled), a 4+ save has a good chance of just blocking out all of your damage outright if you use lances. You want force him to make multiple saves, in order to get damage through, as the robots only have 6 wounds each.

So you are of the opinion that Robots should take priority, not Icarus Dunecrawlers?

It probably depends on terrain/deployment. The Icarus is something that you want to get rid of too, to be sure. The Onagers have a worse invul save, so I would put kabalite blasters (and/or lances) on the Dunecrawlers (if you're playing Flayed Skull, you've got a pretty insane threat range with warriors in venoms), and dissies on the robots.

krayd wrote:

It probably depends on terrain/deployment. The Icarus is something that you want to get rid of too, to be sure. The Onagers have a worse invul save, so I would put kabalite blasters (and/or lances) on the Dunecrawlers (if you're playing Flayed Skull, you've got a pretty insane threat range with warriors in venoms), and dissies on the robots.

True. I guess I have two decisions to make: (1) whether I want the improved threat range/ignoring cover of Flayed Skull, or the reliable rerolls/ability to counter Wrath of Mars with AoV with Black Heart; and (2) whether I want to try to shut down his Robots early with sacrificial Reavers, or throw in Grotesques for added CC punch/targets.

I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but each battle round the cog boys will sing a different prayer to give them buffs. My understanding is they have to change it each round. One of them gives every unit a cover save, even if they are standing in the open. This applys to vehicles too. Because of this Flayed Skull's ignore cover is extra tasty.

Serpent Fly wrote:

I don't think this has been mentioned yet, but each battle round the cog boys will sing a different prayer to give them buffs. My understanding is they have to change it each round. One of them gives every unit a cover save, even if they are standing in the open. This applys to vehicles too. Because of this Flayed Skull's ignore cover is extra tasty.

They have to change it every round *if* they choose it instead of rolling for it (though choosing the cover one on round 1 is pretty standard). If the opponent is playing Mars, then they're probably going to roll for it most of the time, since their ability is that they get to roll 2 dice and keep both results if they choose to roll.

I play ad mech as one of my other armies.

Robots are your #1 priority. If you can get something into combat with him that has staying power (big unit of reavers possibly) that will go a long way. Once they are tied up, the rest of the army is really no different than any other army to tackle.

So I fought the battle. Here were some highlights:

1. I managed to tie up the Robots early on, which was fantastic. By turn 2, however, most of my cc units had been cleared away from the bots after they fell back, after which they were able to activate their protector protocols and use Wrath of Mars (I was out of CP this point, I went really heavy on both scenario-specific stratagems and Agents of Vect early on). They proceeded to vaporize 6 of my 8 Grotesques, with the last 2 dying from morale. You guys weren't kidding, they are monsters!

2. Beyond that, my firepower was fairly dominant, and I won in the end. It was also my first time using Black Heart, and while AoV was pivotal at the beginning, and the Writ of the Living Muse was incredibly handy on my Ravagers, the 6+ FNP on vehicles and Labyrinthine Cunning didn't have that big of an effect at all.

3. At one point, I had an Archon and a Succubus both in combat with Cawl. They managed to drop him down to 3 wounds, but in exchange, Cawl killed the Succubus, dropped the Archon's shadow field with his mechadendrites, and then killed him next round after regenerating most of his lost wounds. The Lord of Mars is not one to be trifled with. Also, ridiculously enough, another Succubus was fighting to a standstill against an Enginseer for 2 turns.

I would have wanted to see how well my Ravagers could have whittled down his Robots, or whether i could have gotten my Taloi into close combat before they were blasted to shreds. Sadly, he conceded before any of that could happen. Still, a win is a win.

Oof, I played against an Ad Mech army for the first time recently and it turned out absolutely brutally for me. Our vehicles are really easy prey for their sheer weight of firepower.

I dunno what I'd even do against them in future games except pray to get the first turn and hope that there's some decent terrain on the board to cower behind.

Congrats on your win. Sad to hear the Succubus didn't do great, for our supposed CC hq they are very lackluster.