HELP! Which list for Throne of Skulls this weekend?

Hellion Posts : 38 Join date : 2013-05-15

No forge world allowed otherwise I would run a real corsair list. I meant a death company dread.

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

...First off let me just say that I'm really happy someone else is using wyches. I've been running a wych list since I started playing earlier this year and I've been pretty happy. Shadows and the people in chat have been so helpful in learning tactics and generally how to cut fat from my list, answering questions, and the likes that I really respect what they have to say, however, I still love my wyches.

List being optimized for real veteran players or not aside, how would you have fleshed this out to 2000 points?

I'm just curious because I played a game against IG last night and my two wych sqauds in a venom and my two wych sqauds in raiders did some excellent work last night that I'm debating cutting the ravagers for Talos or Bombers...not sure though...

Anyway, I'm so glad you did well!

Congratulations on DE victory!

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

This is kinda what I'd expect to run, if, I was following your second list and was given some more points.

Code:: +++ Wyches! (2000pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ +

* Archon
(Fleet, Independent Character, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
Combat Drugs, Haywire Grenades, Huskblade, Kabalite Armor, Plasma Grenades, Shadow field, Soul-trap, Splinter Pistol

* Duke Sliscus the Serpent
(Contraband, Fleet, Independent Character, Low Orbit Raid, Night Vision, Power from Pain, The Serpent's Venom)
Blast Pistol, Combat Drugs, Ghostplate Armour, Plasma Grenades, Shadowfield, The Serpent's Bite (x2)

+ Elites +

* Hekatrix Bloodbrides
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* 4x Bloodbrides
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon

* Hekatrix Bloodbrides
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* 4x Bloodbrides
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon

+ Troops +

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 5x Wyches
5x Haywire grenades, 5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 5x Wyches
5x Haywire grenades, 5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 5x Wyches
5x Haywire grenades, 5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 5x Wyches
5x Haywire grenades, 5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 5x Wyches
5x Haywire grenades, 5x Plasma Grenades, 5x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

+ Heavy Support +

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
Flickerfield, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, 2x Void Lance, Void Mine

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
Flickerfield, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, 2x Void Lance, Void Mine

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
Flickerfield, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, Implosion Missile, 2x Void Lance, Void Mine

Created with BattleScribe

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Hellion Posts : 38 Join date : 2013-05-15

@Korazell - Indeed, adding a second combat beast in the archon would be nice as would the implosion missiles - however in my experience if you're going for a optimised often called 'spam' style list you need to trim fat and keep everything down to specific roles.

Implosion missiles are brutal but they are pricey and they are anti infantry where the void raven wants to hunt enemy flyers and tanks with those nasty void lances.

I usually build armies to the 1750-1850 mark as that is what most tourneys run here at, for some reason Throne of Skulls only runs at 1500 which is a shame (it used to run 1750).

If 2000 points I would run x3 units of 6 reavers with x2 blasters or heat lances. Spare points would then be put onto grisly trophies on venoms for re-roll leadership tests. At 1850-1750 I would just reduce the reaver size until I could fit 3 units in.

Now I have even more target saturation and of course that first turn anti tank threat. What do people do? Do they destroy the reavers to stop my opening tanks or do they focus on my venoms and let the reavers do their worst? Either way, the opponent is put in a tough position as every single unit in the army is a threat. And it is spammed. Not very nice - but sure is effective Wink

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

Oh? I just figured it gave you some good spam against heavy artillery. I just figured it came in and fired away missles.

I was looking at them, or, the necro-toxin really with the pinning...I guess those would be okay, or, just stock missiles even. Wait, it doesn't even come with stock missles. You'd just use the void mine and the void lances?

Huh, seems like the missile spam was pretty important...

Reavers are hit and miss in my book, my experiences with them are one ignore cover template negates their jink save and they just die...

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Hellion Posts : 38 Join date : 2013-05-15

I agree reavers are fragile that why I would take multiple small units (MSU) and I would rather have them shot down then one of my scoring unit venoms... It's all about the added target saturation to overwhelm the opponent...

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

Huh...I run a blob of nine and they always seem to just go down in flames. They usually get a bladevaye attack in, but, this game they bladevayned a sqaud of Ig killed them all, heat lanced a tank to death, then was a scoring unit thanks to scourge for the rest of the game. -shrugs.-

No comments on the bombers and missles? I just figured the missle support was needed.

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Hellion Posts : 38 Join date : 2013-05-15

If the model was out I would take the bombers over the razorwings - better armour awesome anti tank/anti flyer ability and can attack 2 target each on the first turn they arrive (1 with the bomb and another with the lances). Don't get me wrong, I think the missiles are amazing and the fact that the razorwing comes with them stock is cool. But more often then not, I am firing at other flyers or a tank which makes the missiles useless... Besides with 7 venoms and 3 units of reavers we already have all the anti infantry we could dream of!!

Just my opinion of course - maybe you would have better success with the missile upgrades but I think adding the reavers at larger points would be better...

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

I'll have to give it a shot. Thanks! I've boughten some Talos to replace my ravagers since they never seem to do anything for me, but, we'll test them and then see if I want planes instead since my local group usually dissallowes fliers! Thanks for the tips!

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

Actually, would you run something like this then?

With the added archon and the two squads of six, there isn't enough points to make another squad of six, so, I went and slapped a hexatrice with a venom blade into the venoms.

Code:: +++ Wyches! (1997pts) +++
+++ 2000pt Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ +

* Archon
(Fleet, Independent Character, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
Combat Drugs, Haywire Grenades, Huskblade, Kabalite Armor, Plasma Grenades, Shadow field, Soul-trap, Splinter Pistol

* Duke Sliscus the Serpent
(Contraband, Fleet, Independent Character, Low Orbit Raid, Night Vision, Power from Pain, The Serpent's Venom)
Blast Pistol, Combat Drugs, Ghostplate Armour, Plasma Grenades, Shadowfield, The Serpent's Bite (x2)

+ Elites +

* Hekatrix Bloodbrides
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* 4x Bloodbrides
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon

* Hekatrix Bloodbrides
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* 4x Bloodbrides
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon

+ Troops +

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

+ Fast Attack +

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Heat Lance, 6x Jetbikes

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Heat Lance, 6x Jetbikes

+ Heavy Support +

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

Created with BattleScribe

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Hellion Posts : 38 Join date : 2013-05-15

I like that a lot as it is still cheap and I like the theme of all my character having venom blades like the duke but in terms of effectiveness, I would still drop the archon and second blood bride unit for a further unit of 6 reavers. 3 units of 6 possibly with blasters instead of heat lance for the extra range (6 blaster shots turn one) and to put the pressure on your opponent straight away. The heat lance probs won't be in range turn one so would require turbo boosting and losing a turn of shooting...

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

You end up 36 points over with the third unit of six reavers with the blasters, sadly. I'm trying to see what can be swapped around, potentially, I'd say drop one venom of Bloodbrides and switch a venom for a unit of nine wyches with the Duke, arm the raider with a disintegrator, and then, you can add in the third sqaud of six reavers, with blasters, and give each sqaud of them one caltrop upgrade.

Code:: +++ Wyches (1999pts) +++
+++ 20000pt Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ +

* Duke Sliscus the Serpent
(Contraband, Fleet, Independent Character, Low Orbit Raid, Night Vision, Power from Pain, The Serpent's Venom)
Blast Pistol, Combat Drugs, Ghostplate Armour, Plasma Grenades, Shadowfield, The Serpent's Bite (x2)

+ Troops +

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Raider
Disintegrator
* 9x Wyches
9x Haywire grenades, 9x Plasma Grenades, 9x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

+ Fast Attack +

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Blaster, Cluster catrops, 6x Jetbikes

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Blaster, Cluster catrops, 6x Jetbikes

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Blaster, Cluster catrops, 6x Jetbikes

+ Heavy Support +

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

Created with BattleScribe

OR...

Code:: +++ Wyches (1996pts) +++
+++ 20000pt Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) Roster (Primary Detachment)) +++

Selections:

Dark Eldar 6th Ed (2010) (Primary Detachment) Selections:

+ HQ +

* Duke Sliscus the Serpent
(Contraband, Fleet, Independent Character, Low Orbit Raid, Night Vision, Power from Pain, The Serpent's Venom)
Blast Pistol, Combat Drugs, Ghostplate Armour, Plasma Grenades, Shadowfield, The Serpent's Bite (x2)

+ Elites +

* Hekatrix Bloodbrides
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* 4x Bloodbrides
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon

+ Troops +

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

* Wyches
(Dodge, Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain)
* Hekatrix
Haywire grenades, Plasma Grenades, Splinter Pistol, Venom Blade
* Venom
Flickerfield, Splinter Cannon
* 4x Wyches
4x Haywire grenades, 4x Plasma Grenades, 4x Splinter Pistol and Close Combat Weapon

+ Fast Attack +

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Blaster, 6x Jetbikes

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Blaster, 6x Jetbikes

* Reaver Jetbikes
(Fleet, Night Vision, Power from Pain, Skilled Riders)
2x Blaster, 6x Jetbikes

+ Heavy Support +

* Ravager
(Aerial Assault, Night Vision)
Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

* Voidraven Bomber
(Deep Strike, Night Vision, Supersonic)
2x Void Lance, Void Mine

Created with BattleScribe

You can drop one bomber, toss in a ravager, have some turn one priority threat targetting, keep your six troops and one elite, with the duke, and then have the two bombers slide in turn two, which, I feel is a much stronger set up personally.

Please do not list unit profiles when posting lists generated from BattleScribe. It is against forum rules. If you have done this in other posts please edit them accordingly. Thanks. - Mush

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Kabalite Warrior Posts : 127 Join date : 2013-05-14

Shadows Revenge wrote:: I am a full supporter of dual charges, but the problem is the wyches arent what does the damage, its the sargie that consistantly gets through due to her weapon. S3 and only 2 attacks (3 on the charge) does nothing to MEQ statline. Now ofc you can mitigate this with Drugs and duke, but even that isnt guarenteed. Add in that your scoring options are in combat... or getting slaughtered from explosions. That isnt too apealing to me.

Yes thats my opinion of wyches as well .. they were better in 5th as no over watch .. They are nice now for 4 things
- Haywire anti tank ( may not work if people bubble tanks with grots / conscripts. )
- Take out smaller units. So weakened units. I supose with 2 units attacking this helps but it means 2 Venoms in the danger zone.
- TEQ tarpit , they wont win but they will hold for a long time.
- Objectives

Now all the above are very usefull , but arent you better of having more options.. eg Blood brides are the same but Incubi are great vs MEQ , Wracks with liquifiers are good where you may lose your carier or high toughness opponents. Why not scatterborn who can cheaply park 24 shots at 36" and stay there thats 3 * 5 wych assaulting Venoms . The wyches Venoms want to assault and stay out of range and fire which is not ideal..

re the Ravengers , its quite interesting , your using your air like flying ravengers but with more anti infantry . It may work in your meta.. but the thing about 3 Ravengers is not just first turn its also after you go 2nd and lose 1 you still have 6 tubes firing for 4-5 turns , no issues with bad reinforcement rolls ( master of the fleet ) , top players know where flyers will be and avoid them etc its just a lot more forgiving and cheaper .. Also after turn 1 you can move them up and shoot in the side avoiding the cover save. You can also deploy them later ( at a slight risk) . Its just more cost effective.

I think you will struggle vs some Necro and guard lists especially those with 3 Vendetta and lots of vehicles which can be bubble wrapped. Thats the thing when you have a tournament and your in the final round and you draw a bad matchup than you want to be able to have an ok chance.. 1 Dimensional ( spam) lists work well against some opponents and you can win tournaments but since you win so easy against those your still better of changing your list to something more flexible / broad which is also IMHO more interesting to run.

One other thing you mentioned the player using guide on a non Eldar is that legal ...i thought ( but havent checked) that the FAQ clarified it must be eldar ( from the Codex)

Hellion Posts : 38 Join date : 2013-05-15

I get the point of view. 9 dark lances on the field from turn 1 is tasty. But the very armies you mention such as a guard - (my friend runs 3 vendettas) and necrons my other friend who took best Necrons at ToS last year runs 4 Night Scythes. With no air defence we really stand no chance against those lists. Hence why I take 3 Razorwings (which will be switched to the Void Raven when they come out), I don't believe in being able to ignore these types of flyer armies and come out on top. I've played them many times and know from painful experience that I need to take my own to at least have a decent chance of having a game.

As for troops bubble wrapping their tanks, I believe it was mushkilla that hit upon the tactic I use - they are just cleared out with venom fire. 6th ed demands casualties from the front so I have not yet had an opponent successfully bubble wrap their tanks to protect them against me yet...

As for the a eldar allies he was using Prescience (from divination in the rulebook) not Guide...

Hope that helps.

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

Pretty much, Void, I agree with you on thw Wych Blitzkrieg. Shadows and Wandering blade are going to copy the list and do some play testing with it.

Wych meta, go!

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Last edited by Mushkilla on Tue May 21 2013, 19:40; edited 2 times in total

I do see Mech Guard giving the list trouble. When I used to run a wych cult at the beginning of 6th I always had problems against them. Any decent IG player will always run hull mounted heavy flamers on their chimera's and they really cause wyches problems. Have you played against mechanised guard (5-6 chimera, 2-3 medusas/artilery, 1-2 vendetta) with this list?

_________________
Latest Report: BR4: The Repugnant Ramblers Vs Imperial Knights - 1250pts
Pragmatic Realspace Raider Series

“Even the Black Buzzards thought highly of him, and those maniacs were renowned for hating everyone.” - Tantalus, by Braden Campbell

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

I don't think he has, however, I played against a IG player sunday who had the tank with the inferno cannon I think it's called? It's shoots a heavy flamer template in whatever direction it wants twelve inches out that ignores cover.

I am insanely jealous of flamers because I think flamers on wyches would make the unit the best. The bessst.

Knowing that won't happen, I make do with throwing one plasma grenade.

Anyway, I digress. My three ravagers did junk all to anything and I assualted the tank, which got no over-watch, and haywired it while letting my beast sqaud ram into the IG squad with flamers and auto cannons, taking three beastmasters and a bird with three wounds, oh no, and then the slaughter.

The rest of his tanks were taken out with reavers and haywire wyches. It was glorious.

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Wych Posts : 755 Join date : 2013-03-28

Against full mechanized armies designed to go defensive with ADL and tarpit bubblewrap elements assaulting AT is gonna have some issues simply because you need to kill their cheap throw away wrap first. 6th didnt change the principle of wrapping enough to make them ineffective it simply changed formations (edit and deployment).

That said the OP didnt encounter such elements and was very very successful. Props, now I wanna run a wych cult too Lol.

Long story short I dig the list and the results are straight. Ravagers are out and wyches are the new 3++... Maybe he should start a blog or somethin'.

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

I fought one of those on sunday and won mostly due to him ignoring my two venoms of wyches. Bubble-wrap means nothing when shot with the missles and venoms as the wounds will literally peel away the front wrapping and allow a space to assualt.

Trust me, it's doable. The only question is with some other players playtesting it is if it's the new "template" wych cult standard that performs well in a all comers list.

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Last edited by Mushkilla on Tue May 21 2013, 20:05; edited 2 times in total

I'm not talking about bubble wrap that just gives venoms something to shoot at. I'm talking about a wall of AV12. That you can't put a dent in until turn 2 when the flyers come on, even then what are six lances going to do? Those chimera's can run and gun all day long, flat out 18" when needed, when the wyches finally close, they are met with heavy flamers and rapid fire from disembarked disposable guardsmen. All that while barrage weapons are raining down on you and vendettas are outgunning your flyers.

Against a decent mechanised guard list played by a good player this Dark Eldar list will have serious problems. At least in my experience. That being said most Dark Eldar lists struggle with mech Guard.

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Wych Posts : 755 Join date : 2013-03-28

Quote :: I fought one of those on sunday and won mostly due to him ignoring my two venoms of wyches. Bubble-wrap means nothing when shot with the missles and venoms as the wounds will literally peel away the front wrapping and allow a space to assualt.

Trust me, it's doable. The only question is with some other players playtesting it is if it's the new "template" wych cult standard that performs well in a all comers list.

Ahh that is just excellent. Makes perfect sense although it still delays your AT at least one turn but then again trying to outshoot such armies isnt really appealing either. Hmmm that coupled with 2/3 chance of night fight (strategic traits) is brilliant. Against non mechanized its business as usual!

So was that in the initial list design process when considering 3 flyers instead of ravagers? If so good god..

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

Mushkilla wrote:: I'm not talking about bubble wrap that just gives venoms something to shoot at. I'm talking about a wall of AV12. That you can't put a dent in until turn 2 when the flyers come on, even then what are six lances going to do? Those chimera's can run and gun all day long, flat out 18" when needed, when the wyches finally close, they are met with heavy flamers and rapid fire from disembarked disposable guardsmen. All that while barrage weapons are raining down on you and vendettas are outgunning your flyers.

Against a decent mechanised guard list played by a good player this Dark Eldar list will have serious problems. At least in my experience. That being said most Dark Eldar lists struggle with mech Guard.

Warning! Extremely biased post is biased! I run a wych cult list and have had good success with it. This is me being really excited and trying to talk strat...which is not my strongest point. But bear with me. D:

As far as i understand, this is our hardest matchup. Against a list like that you'd be hard pressed to win, I will admit, with this list. But then even if I ran three ravagers with raiders with lances, with venoms with blasterborn tank hunters, let's be completely honest with each other. We'd have problems any weapon you need to roll a 4 to glance, 5-6 to pen. Not to mention 3+ to even hit with their cover saves and camo net. The void mine from above is a good way to hit multiple tanks to disable weapons and stun crews, as well, with terrian on the board you can road-block tanks. I'm not saying it will be easy, or even a even match, but I'm saying with venoms and haywires which give much more deadly results, shouldn't be swept off the board without consideration.

I think with a tactical mind behind the list and some play testing, we can really make this work. I honestly can. The venom spam would be fantastic support for the wyches, and if they wyches were deployed from the venom and were in shooting range, they can splinter fire and lob a grenade before the charge. Also, "Overwatch kills wyches" is about as tiring and old as ever. Over-watch can kill everything. my wyches yesterday I think I lost three total to over-watch from IG shotguns. It was annoying. But...It didn't stop me from winning.

Brom, it was in my inital list thinking...I'm not sure if it was Void's, but it really seems to be as he literally is doing Cult Blitzkrieg.

I've been rather dissatisfied with my ravagers in my meta as they seem to kill something with a lucky pen first turn then literally do nothing the rest of the game...kinda bums me out.

I orderd Three Taloi for a very cheap price to test drive, since my current league isn't doing fliers until the last round, but now...I wonder if I should cancel that order and get me some fliers...

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Wych Posts : 755 Join date : 2013-03-28

Quote :: Brom, it was in my inital list thinking...I'm not sure if it was Void's, but it really seems to be as he literally is doing Cult Blitzkrieg.

I've been rather dissatisfied with my ravagers in my meta as they seem to kill something with a lucky pen first turn then literally do nothing the rest of the game...kinda bums me out.

I orderd Three Taloi for a very cheap price to test drive, since my current league isn't doing fliers until the last round, but now...I wonder if I should cancel that order and get me some fliers...

Ya Id like the OP to chime in on list design. To clarify a little I believe his decisions were made based on meta prediction of infantry with a smattering of flyers over straight mech but designed to handle the latter as secondary. Thus the flyers paid off.

That said I would not ditch ravagers for all flyers except as a meta prediction. IMO ravagers are still better overall especially in the face of wrapping plus their far cheaper.

On bubble wrap id like to discuss this a little further. In 5th edition models were removed from the back and basically wrapping worked great. Nuff said.

In 6th models are removed by closest which changes things. But bubble wrap is still very effective. I use everything from fodder units to terminators to bikes to wrap, even tanks as mush said. They all work and I dont see how removing from the front has really decreased the effectivenes other than to change placement although id love to hear something i may be missing.

Example:
Opponent places wrapping models forward between the prospective assault unit in venom and a tank, since no DSing units are threatening they leave a nice healthy gap.
If opponent goes first they move forward to extend the gap, if DE go first they must either boost to within 1" to stop the forward move (and forego shooting) or instead move 12" and shoot the wrap after which the opponent gets to adjust his wrap to fill gaps and moves forward putting distance between the wrap and tank. DE turn 2 venom moves ups disgorges wyches.

Sounds about right? Problem is movement comes before shooting meaning where models get removed doesnt really matter for the purposes of charge range. The fact that the wrap existed at the beginning of DE movement is sufficient to deny the charge (or make it pretty unfavorable especially if charging through ADL or any other difficult ground).

Now in mush's example its even worse because one wrap gets replaced with another and the first is immune to poison.

Edit- I suck at getting my ideas across on the web but hopefully you get the idea Very Happy

Sybarite Posts : 392 Join date : 2013-03-08

I kinda get what you are talking about. AV walls we're going to take out of the discussion because either way they will give us problems, all ravagers or all void-lances aside. With an infantry bubble wrap, it's still not all that bad really. Unless they are using a rather large squad of units, like cultists, or something like a platoon of Ig, I don't see exactly how a few venoms can't punch a hole in there.

However, I do understand that what you mean, but flanking comes into play. We can literally out-manuver the box, usually I mean. And the void-raven can drop a mine over the box and really break up bubble wrap while dealing damage even further to vehicles.

I just don't see it becoming a problem unless heavy mechanized IG...but then I'd move up first turn with venoms behind line of sight blocking cover, then second turn bomb and lance, then charge. -Shrugs.-

Still, Shadows or Mush would know more about that then me.

_________________
" Your suffering will be legendary. It will make the dead, long forgotten in our dear Commorragh, rattle in their graves as your agony touches them even from the beyond. I will record each scream, each gurgle, each cry and it will be my sweetest lullaby. The tears you spill will be collected and I will savor them like fine drink for years to come. The blood you spill will be used to feed my house-plants, and your flesh I will feed to the Razorwing flocks. Your bones I will keep and fashion into my clothes like a medal awarded for reaching the highest plateau of torture. You will never steal my sandwych again!"

Wych Posts : 755 Join date : 2013-03-28

Thats what im talking about, essentially your charge range is going to be dictated in some degree by the wrapping units distance until the turn after you eliminate them.

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