Grot bomb Vs Court bomb

I find it interesting how similar these two units can be played, particularly sllyths and medusae vs grotz with LG.
Example:

A grotesque with a LG costs 50 points.
A medusae and sllyth together cost 50 points.

The medusae and sllyth take up to unit slots in a transpot together.
The grotesque is bulky so it takes up two slots in transports too.

Grotesques have a total of 3 wounds.
Together sllyth and medusae have 3 wounds.

Grotesques have toughness 5
Medusae and sllyth (can) have majority toughness 5.

...
The list goes on and on!
Which should be the go to unit for WWP deepstriking?

The court seems better at range and the grotz seem better in CC..

If I want a unit to get into assault as quickly as possible, I would not let it DS via WWP but send it forward Turn 1 inside a transport. It will allow me a Turn 2 assault.

A shooty unit won't care about assault after DS, but it doesn't need to position as precise so a WWP might not be necessary.

What about saving the points here and sticking the WWP on a third unit?

I will be using the Grot bomb. I refuse to buy Finecast so that kind of limits me! I really want Incubi but it is not worth the trouble IMO. That being said I bought the rat ogres from island of blood and will be converting them with talos bits and green stuff. 4 grots with up to two ICs is super duper to me.

DingK wrote:

If I want a unit to get into assault as quickly as possible, I would not let it DS via WWP but send it forward Turn 1 inside a transport. It will allow me a Turn 2 assault.

A shooty unit won't care about assault after DS, but it doesn't need to position as precise so a WWP might not be necessary.

What about saving the points here and sticking the WWP on a third unit?

The problem is that the raider can always get shot out from under them.. WWP doesn't have that problem.

Medussae templates and no scatter deep strike looks taste. WWP in next to some 3+ save units and make it disappear. Charge or flame another unit next turn. Grotz can do the same thing. IM mainly looking at those two because they are tough units that can pack on templates, a nasty combo with no scatter deepstrike

Its_Rumble wrote:

I will be using the Grot bomb. I refuse to buy Finecast so that kind of limits me! I really want Incubi but it is not worth the trouble IMO. That being said I bought the rat ogres from island of blood and will be converting them with talos bits and green stuff. 4 grots with up to two ICs is super duper to me.

I used Ogres from Ogre Kingdom of Fantasy, 6 in a box for 30-40$

I got 4 on ebay for 25

Its_Rumble wrote:

I got 4 on ebay for 25

I got 8 for fifty! Crazy! Did you buy yours from window-box too?

Hoard o bits?

I prefer Grots in my hand as I don't wanna buy a dozen of new models with the same pose.
(EDIT: well, I've changed my mind to buy four anyhow )

When it comes to the delivery system, I'm gonna take the WWP one. The raider delivery is good due to its possibility of T2 assault, but the early wreckage may change the squad into a slow footslogging unit likely useless till the end of the game.

The grot bomb can charge in T3 in the most case using WWP (89% thanks to Comms Relay). They can land down anywhere they want in sacrifice of two combat phases. IMHO it's worthwhile trade, especially combined with the Null Deployment.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

The problem is that the raider can always get shot out from under them.. WWP doesn't have that problem.

Medussae templates and no scatter deep strike looks taste. WWP in next to some 3+ save units and make it disappear. Charge or flame another unit next turn. Grotz can do the same thing. IM mainly looking at those two because they are tough units that can pack on templates, a nasty combo with no scatter deepstrike

First up, I stick the Raider in cover, out of LOS if possible. Turn 1, I boost up as far as I can, still trying to go for cover. I just make sure I'm within roughly 20 inches of my intended target (6" movement 2"disembark, another 6, then 2D6).
When I'm this far up, I no longer care about the Raider, it's don it's job. If it's still there, great, it keeps the Grots from getting shot at themselves.

If, however, I let them DS in, they wouldn't be able to assault till turn 3. They'd still be in a Raider to protect them from shots, so no points to save there.

I like the idea of having a deep strike unit to go hand in hand with assault from raiders. The ability to drop in the back seems nice as a pincer. It may force people out from behind cover and into the seems of the waiting raider assault forces.. Both seems better than one or the other.

DingK wrote:

I just make sure I'm within roughly 20 inches of my intended target (6" movement 2"disembark, another 6, then 2D6).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no 2" disembark followed by the 6" move. It's only wholly within 6" of the access point

1++ wrote:

DingK wrote:

I just make sure I'm within roughly 20 inches of my intended target (6" movement 2"disembark, another 6, then 2D6).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no 2" disembark followed by the 6" move. It's only wholly within 6" of the access point

He may mention the additional 2" benefit from our long raider

lelith wrote:

1++ wrote:

DingK wrote:

I just make sure I'm within roughly 20 inches of my intended target (6" movement 2"disembark, another 6, then 2D6).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no 2" disembark followed by the 6" move. It's only wholly within 6" of the access point

He may mention the additional 2" benefit from our long raider

Seriously, are there still people "finding" inches through rotation in movement? 6" move is 6" move, no matter how you rotate. I must admit that it isn't foolproof but you will get it done

Anyway on subject: I don't understand why grots need LG a pop? LG got nerfed and Grotz got buffed.
My personal preference goes to Succubus (Glaive, Parasite Kiss, HwG maybe) to join unit of 3 Grotz with one Aberration with Agonizer (which got buffed too). 5 Models, 4 with Rampage. The amount of damage that you can pump out of there is amazing and Succi is there to kill of any 2+ saves.

I would also like a Medusa court, all flamers. To go nuts you can pick up to 9 Eye-burst with a WWP IC in a raider. If I'm correct all 9 template must be placed the same way, as you have to maximize your hits. This might be a little overkill this might result in 45 S4 AP3 ingore cover hits on one unit.
But then again I don't play competitive so I wont know if you need this. Seems fun though. Overkill!!
I wouldn't bother in mixing with Slyths, as you only loose templates in exchange for T5 vs shooting. I rather opt for a Heamy WWP and FnP on turn2. Templates kill enemy units. And if you place your Raider awkward enough, in combination with one your own unit (say Reaver). You can tag two enemy units, as you always have to avoid touching friendly models with templates.
But that is something I would leave to tourney minded people, as this is more playing the rules than the game itself. WWP allows this now, as you don't scatter, you can fit anywhere you can stay off 1" of the enemy.

well when and if we get plastic court models, i might get some.
the medusa court looks good on paper and will definitely annoy ppl with accurate DS.

Im of the mind that as you can't assault after DS you may as well pack that vehicle with whichever shooting option is best for your gaming area.

6 Medusae felt just right, 9 might be a bit over kill. if you line the template up just right you should be getting at least 4-6 hits per, giving you a total of 24 -36, which is more than sufficient to wipe a squad. It almost felt too killy but it sure did the trick and was 150 points.

If you tinker your list well, you can field both.

Archon with your Court and Haemie with the Grot.

PainReaver wrote:

If you tinker your list well, you can field both.

Archon with your Court and Haemie with the Grot.

I was having a similar idea but switching places of Haemie and Archon. That way both units get FnP on Turn 2. That way your Medusae might survive some return fire. Especially since templates hit OT transports really hard now.

If I can afford to put Animus Vitae in on the Archon, things could prove even more interesting with Turn 3 Furious Charge on Grots => RR 2wound poison vs (up to) T5!

I'm really excited about the new Grots

Aroban wrote:

I have been thinking about this tradeoff for a while and couldn't come to a conclusion.

If I decide to go with a court I would also take a raider with splinter racks even when using wwp. Reason is that the lost assault in turn 2 could be compensated by a powerful number of splinter shots by the sslyth and additionally by the Archon's Animus Vitae to hopefully get the army +1 on PfP on turn 2 (the latter is for Grots option as well).

The opponent then has to destroy the raider with 3+ jink first in order to get access to damage the court/grots.

Fleet is also worth to consider. Not being able to get in to cc with Grots is more likely than with the court.

Both options are really great, Grots with LG will also hurt a lot in shooting, but are not as reliable as splinter weapons.

When deepstriking grotz in raiders you're limiting the max number of grotz to 4.. the court maybe best with the raider thought..
I'm thinking of taking a sucubbus with 6 grotz and 3 LG and the Dark Artisan formation and deepstriking them together into the enemies back field... 4+ fnp for all AND templates out the rump!

I always have two units of grots in raiders, they can get anywhere on the table with their now 36" move. They are normall in assault turn two with 3up jink they are damn hard to get rid of and are incredibly resilient despite having no armour.
I would deep strike with the court, ap3 flamers are insanely good!

Crazy_Ivan wrote:

I always have two units of grots in raiders, they can get anywhere on the table with their now 36" move. They are normall in assault turn two with 3up jink they are damn hard to get rid of and are incredibly resilient despite having no armour.
I would deep strike with the court, ap3 flamers are insanely good!

I was thinking about this too... formation one from the supplement would be great.. they get simi-combatdrugs and the coven PfP which is strictly better for grotz than the regular one.. fearless turn two means they may not even need an attached IC... IWND is obviously fantastic.

While the similarities are there, I feel like Court vs Grots fill 2 different roles.

Grots are a threat. The opponent has to deal with them or they will be consistently hurt by them. They are also a distraction/suicide unit if you rush them up with Aethersails for a turn 2 assault. Liquifier gun or not, they are a force that has to be dealt with.

Court, to me, feel significantly more focused on their purpose based on how you add them. Sslyth have some pretty good muscle while the Lhamaens are solid against higher toughness models. Medusea on the other hand are unique to me. When paired up with a WWP, the potential for them to drop in and flame a unit to death is high thanks to their AP3. They are weaker than grots in hand to hand but they allow a very solid option for dropping in and decimating a unit in a fashion similar to Ork Burnawagons back in 4th and 5th edition.

Unholyllama wrote:

While the similarities are there, I feel like Court vs Grots fill 2 different roles.

Grots are a threat.  The opponent has to deal with them or they will be consistently hurt by them.  They are also a distraction/suicide unit if you rush them up with Aethersails for a turn 2 assault.  Liquifier gun or not, they are a force that has to be dealt with.

Court, to me, feel significantly more focused on their purpose based on how you add them.  Sslyth have some pretty good muscle while the Lhamaens are solid against higher toughness models.  Medusea on the other hand are unique to me.  When paired up with a WWP, the potential for them to drop in and flame a unit to death is high thanks to their AP3.  They are weaker than grots in hand to hand but they allow a very solid option for dropping in and decimating a unit in a fashion similar to Ork Burnawagons back in 4th and 5th edition.

I'm thinking of a court of 5 sllyth and 4 medusea in a raider deepstriking. They get majority toughness 5 and more than 4 templates seems like overkill to me.

Bibitybopitybacon wrote:

Unholyllama wrote:

While the similarities are there, I feel like Court vs Grots fill 2 different roles.

Grots are a threat.  The opponent has to deal with them or they will be consistently hurt by them.  They are also a distraction/suicide unit if you rush them up with Aethersails for a turn 2 assault.  Liquifier gun or not, they are a force that has to be dealt with.

Court, to me, feel significantly more focused on their purpose based on how you add them.  Sslyth have some pretty good muscle while the Lhamaens are solid against higher toughness models.  Medusea on the other hand are unique to me.  When paired up with a WWP, the potential for them to drop in and flame a unit to death is high thanks to their AP3.  They are weaker than grots in hand to hand but they allow a very solid option for dropping in and decimating a unit in a fashion similar to Ork Burnawagons back in 4th and 5th edition.

I'm thinking of a court of 5 sllyth and 4 medusea in a raider deepstriking. They get majority toughness 5 and more than 4 templates seems like overkill to me.

This plus a Haemy with WWP is pretty darn expensive but could be pretty effective.

The largest concern that I would have with this though is making sure you have a target.  A number of players in my local area has been doing more transport spam (wave serpents, necron AV13, rhino rush, etc) and ensuring that there's targets on the ground to flame (or assault) is huge.  Easy (relatively speaking) against blog guard, orks/nids, and tau but if something is on the ground, a unit like this turns into a wave-2 unit that depends on wave-1 popping vehicles to make things happen.

This is an issue with Grot-bombs too.