Lhamaean as sole HQ?

aurynn wrote:

Can someone confirm the wording from digital edition and/or different languages?

Good thought. I wouldn't be surprised if the French or German version actually references the old requirements.

IDK what the digitals say, but by its wording (And at my local came to also) that you CAN take 1 model court as an HQ.

Well, I wouldn't play.

Me neither. We have bad grammar in a lot of books, dont think thats a legitimate reason to abuse rules in friendly games with "Fluffy the Ur-Ghoul General"

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Me neither. We have bad grammar in a lot of books, dont think thats a legitimate reason to abuse rules in friendly games with "Fluffy the Ur-Ghoul General"

The Codex shows its an HQ. its in the HQ section, it says If you have an archon it doesnt take up a Slot.

To me its fine grammar.

Like the Splinter Racks and twin linked for the whole army? Are you going to abuse that too? RAW there is no room to argue otherwise.

Minks wrote:

Hi there, a quick question to those of you with the codex - going by the Court of the Archon's entry, it would be possible to take a sole Lhamaean as a hq choice, right? Seems a good way to free up 90+ points...

Illegal. An Archon ALLOWS you to take a Court. This is pretty obvious.

Unorthodoxy wrote:

Minks wrote:

Hi there, a quick question to those of you with the codex - going by the Court of the Archon's entry, it would be possible to take a sole Lhamaean as a hq choice, right? Seems a good way to free up 90+ points...

Illegal.  An Archon ALLOWS you to take a Court.  This is pretty obvious.

It says An Archon makes them a No FoC unit. They are in the HQ section as an HQ that can be made into a No FoC.

Hmmm we can ask Nova input for the Tournament coming up. or Dakka Dakka for more opinions too.

EDIT: Im not going to do it IF my oponent see a problem with it, I will do this if they come to the same conclusion like they did at my local.

I see no reason against this. Fluffwise I could certainly see an Archon's Court representing him on the battlefield when he has somewhere else to be.

Because we regularly see CEOs putting their Dogs, Bodyguards or Prostitutes in charge when they are on vacation...
Im pretty sure the Archons favorite Ur-Ghoul (which is described as mindless creature) will represent his Archon quite well on the battlefield and his Kabalites will have no issues following the howls (incapable of speech) of a creature which is hunted for fun by even the lowest commorites.

Yes... I guess that nails the fluff perfectly.

The first part of the sentence: "For each Archon included....." is what is called a specification of requirement; we need an Archon to take this selection. The end of the sentence: "......that does not take up a slot...." is further information of how to incorporate this unit into a list. This does not alter the fact that teh sentence begins the way it does. They have just made two sentences into one.

I have spoken to Mike Brandt about this, and pretty sure it won't be permitted for NOVA. Rightly so, as it will open the floodgates and set a terrible precedent for RAW being blithely accepted regardless of common sense. That would be the beginning of the end as far as I see it.

Timatron wrote:

The first part of the sentence: "For each Archon included....." is what is called a specification of requirement; we need an Archon to take this selection.  The end of the sentence: "......that does not take up a slot...." is further information of how to incorporate this unit into a list. This does not alter the fact that teh sentence begins the way it does. They have just made two sentences into one.

I have spoken to Mike Brandt about this, and pretty sure it won't be permitted for NOVA. Rightly so, as it will open the floodgates and set a terrible precedent for RAW being blithely accepted regardless of common sense. That would be the beginning of the end as far as I see it.

That would be the same guy who gave Wave Serpents a 270 degree fire arc with their shield?

average joe wrote:

aurynn wrote:

Can someone confirm the wording from digital edition and/or different languages?

Good thought.  I wouldn't be surprised if the French or German version actually references the old requirements.  

What happened to the French and German denizens? or did I miss a post? I really would like to know how the other language versions state the rule particularly since those rulebooks had a much better written splinter rack rule.

average joe wrote:

average joe wrote:

aurynn wrote:

Can someone confirm the wording from digital edition and/or different languages?

Good thought.  I wouldn't be surprised if the French or German version actually references the old requirements.  

What happened to the French and German denizens?  or did I miss a post?  I really would like to know how the other language versions state the rule particularly since those rulebooks had a much better written splinter rack rule.  

Its always a good start. Its an official document and can be considered a ruling in and of itself. For almost anything.

Something this obvious needs no clarification. The EMPHASIS is being ignored by some. But if someone shows up to my tournaments, they can forget about trying these shenanigans. The Dark City is not dakkadakka. We mostly seem to avoid these kinds of discussions. Ake the high road.

Unorthodoxy, I couldn't agree more. Count, no idea, I can't see how 'treat as a front facing weapon' could be interpreted that way personally but I wasn't talking about past rulings. I was just saying I spoke to him online and he told me that he thought it was wrong, that's all.

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Because we regularly see CEOs putting their Dogs, Bodyguards or Prostitutes in charge when they are on vacation...
Im pretty sure the Archons favorite Ur-Ghoul (which is described as mindless creature) will represent his Archon quite well on the battlefield and his Kabalites will have no issues following the howls (incapable of speech) of a creature which is hunted for fun by even the lowest commorites.

Yes... I guess that nails the fluff perfectly.

Just as we regularly see CEOs personally going out on every little job (why is the Archon in a 500pt Raid?) when they could send a trusted watchdog (Sslyth) or Courtesan (Lhamaean) in their stead?

An Ur-Ghul or Medusae makes less sense. Though Medusae could be justified as being sent to record the battle for the Archon to relive later (as we know they are capable of regurgitating the emotional 'footage' of events to an Archon).

You must understand for this, however, that the Kabalites are still following the Achon's orders--he has likely provided them with orders at the outset and is confident that they can do their jobs... because if they can't I'm sure he will find a new role for them if they return alive.

Which is to say a unit in the HQ slot is not necessarily barking orders in the middle of combat and thus doesn't need to be a leader.

Quote :

Just as we regularly see CEOs personally going out on every little job (why is the Archon in a 500pt Raid?) when they could send a trusted watchdog (Sslyth) or Courtesan (Lhamaean) in their stead?

No, even then they would send some assistant managers (Dracon, Klaivex, Blood Bride) and not their Dogs (Ur-Ghoul), Prostitutes (Lhamean), Hired Muscle (Sslyth) or Drug Dealer (Medusid).

The Kabalites absolutely NEED to be monitored all the time (which is clearly pictured in the books) else they either slack, kill the guys on the Raider next to them for fun and profit or take the price for themselves to sell it (and themselves) to the highes bidder.
If they return alive the Archon will find himself with no loot and no more Kabalites as they just defect to another Kabal and pay them with the stuff they just got from the raid.
A Sslyth has no authority at all. No powerbase behind him, no organization an is (as described in the books and codex) not the brightest (Archons like them because they are to stupid to even think of betrayal).

So no. Fluffwise its horrible. And ruleswise its just abuse of poor wording.

It's not even a case of 'representing the archon' since they can't be chosen as your warlord, it's more giving their chosen representative additional troops to fulfil their task.

That being said, quite frankly I don't want to take a court on its own, I either want them arriving in a specific place (in which case I take an Archon with a WWP, or I don't take them at all).

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

So no. Fluffwise its horrible. And ruleswise its just abuse of poor wording.

Ah, so in your games when your Archon dies (to be back later, courtesy of the Haemonculi), does the entire Kabal disband? Does your Archon lead every raid?

I am not trying to limit what you wish to do with the fluff, but to state outright that none of these circumstances could occur (bar Ur-Ghul, we agree there, that would require either an exceptional Ur-Ghul with a personality or other such--not that that is beyond the scope of the fluff) is pure poppycock. 40k is a foundation upon which any reasonable fluff can be built.

That your Kabal is fill with idiots who would run off to another Kabal the moment they are out of the Archon's sight is your fluff. I like to believe that my Archon runs his Kabal better than that and can trust that his soldiers will do their jobs as the consequences of doing otherwise are far more dire than the benefit of seeking another Kabal to join.

You're not going to be swayed, of course, but that's your prerogative--mine is to allow others to build their fluff as they wish. Have a lovely day!

Quote :

Ah, so in your games when your Archon dies (to be back later, courtesy of the Haemonculi), does the entire Kabal disband? Does your Archon lead every raid?

No, but a qualified underling from the ranks of the Bloodbrides (as Archon Xelian of the Blades of Desire Kabal was represented by her favorite Bloodbride Aez’ashya) or Inccubi (as Archon Krailach of the Real Eternal Kabal is represented by Morr, his personal Bodyguard) or Trueborn Dracons (as... nearly everyone).
Not by Sslyth, not by Ur-Ghoul, not by Medusid and not by Lhamean.

And yes, if there is no suitable substitute the Kabal pretty much dispands and is absorbed into others. Ordinary day in the dark city.

Incubi = Bodyguard.
Sslyth = Bodyguard.

Interesting how one is acceptable but the other is not.

Our disagreement comes to two points:

1) I do believe you have a very different view of a Kabal than I do--you seem to consider them more or less on the level of Tyrannids: incapable of operating without direct leadership. On the other hand I rather more think that the organised military of the Dark Eldar are, while backstabbing and devious, able to see through a raid without the Archon, Succubus, or even a representative thereof being 2 feet away.

2) The HQ role does not necessitate a direct commander. It's simply an arbitrary gameplay term that defines the type of unit you might field in an army--so as to avoid an army consisting entirely of Archons, for example.



I personally have no desire to use a Court as my sole HQ, but I do not like that you believe your view of the fluff gives you the right to blatantly refuse that which someone else might have concocted for themselves--when well within their rights are they to do so.

MyNameDidntFit wrote:

The HQ role does not necessitate a direct commander. It's simply an arbitrary gameplay term that defines the type of unit you might field in an army--so as to avoid an army consisting entirely of Archons, for example.

Very much this - your warlord (ie, the one giving the orders) can be any character in your army (sybarite, solarite, aberration, you name it so long as it has character in its entry, it can be your warlord) and as such, the notion of a solitary lhamaean/sslyth/ur-ghul/medusa being given control of the army becuase they're there 'to represent the archon' isnt' the case - the warlord is the one who has control of the army in the archon's absence and the presence of a court without one would, in my opinion, simply be a case of him beefing up the authority of said nominated warlord with his own personal bully-boys.

Aye, that is certainly another way of putting it, Eye.

In that way I would then picture Fluffy the Ur-Ghul as a token of the Archon's favour: "ooh, look, Sybarite Johnson has Archon Richard's pet with him. Truly is he favoured!"

Indeed, and when Sybarite Johnson demands the surrender of the enemy, with his boot on the marine captain's neck ( ) fluffy leans round from behind, shakes a clenched fist and goes 'yeah!'