1850 Dark Eldar/Grotequeire formation/ALSO DS/reserve army

I am going to the LVO (Las Vegas Open) in February and am thinking about possible lists that could be competitive.  I would like to stick with mostly Dark Eldar, but I own lots of eldar as well so don't mind allying with them at all.  If I decide on a mostly reserve type army then I will add an eldar autarch for sure because the +1/-1 to reserve rolls will be very valuable.  

But for now this is my mostly non reserve/DS list that I am debating about. I have a few points left over so let me know what you think. thanks

C&C please and thanks

1805 points spent of 1850. What should I do with the other 45?

HQ
Archon w/ Huskblade or Agoniser?, Shadow Field, Armour of Misery. 140

ELITE
5 Trueborn w/ 4 Blasters
Raider w/ Dark lance, Night shields.  190pts

TROOP
3x5 Kabalites w/ blaster
Venom w/ Extra Cannon.  120pts X3= 360pts

FAST ATTACK
5 Scourges w/ Haywire blasters. 120pts

2X Razorwing jet fighters w/ Dark lances.  140X2=280pts

HEAVY SUPPORT

2xRavagers w/ Dark lances. 125X2=250pts


FORMATION-GROTESQUERIE

Haemonculus w/ Scissorhand. 80pts

3 Grots w/ Aberration w/ Agoniser
Raider w/ Night Shields. 210pts

3 Grots w/ .....
Raider w/ Night Shields. 175pts


So I have 1805 points. I am not sure as what I should do with the 45 points lets?
I could always take another Aberration with Agoniser, Add +1 Grot to a unit?  The Help of spite looks cool, but I don't think it's necessary.
A nice option that I was thinking about is dropping 1 unit of Kabalite warriors in Venom, and changing them into a unit of 10 Kabalite in a raider w/ Splinter wracks and night shields. That would give me more bodies, some more AP2 from the raider and much better AI from when the enemy gets close or if I want to DS them. At 24' the units still have better AI then a venom due to the racks. A WWP for DS options on Grots?


As for the list I'll start from the top and work my way down.

I haven't used and Archon in a long time, But am excited to run him in a grot unit.  He will join one unit and the Haemonculus will of course join the other. I am on the fence about if the Archon should take the Agoniser or the Huskblade?  I like the Huskblade for ID and not having to rely on the Grots rolling a 6 and the opponent failing their save is kind of nice. But I can see that the agoniser would be very nice as well.

The Trueborn have been a very nice unit for me so far, and they have worked out great. I was debating on giving the Archon a blaster as well just in case he decides to join the Trueborn instead of the Grot unit. The 4 blasters and the Dark lance make a nice harassment unit to DS into good positions to take on side and rear armour of vehicles. I was thinking of leaving the disintegrator to save points and because the raider will usually jink.  A disintegrator would make the unit a really good TEQ unit if I switch. What do you think?

The Kabalite warriors are simple to use.  Take objectives. blasters are there to be a threat and remove those annoying single hull points, clog enemies up that may get in the Grots way of kicking ass etc...

Scourges. I would normally take Blasters on scourges, but the Haywire blasters give them more range and sometimes you really need to remove 1-2 HP reliably.  I have been loving these fellas.

2 Razorwings.  These bad boys have been a ton of fun for me so far. The lances give me decent AA and AT.  The missiles are great for clearing blobs and removing entire MEQ units in a turn.  LOVE'EM!

The Ravagers are always great and a staple vehicle for dark eldar. The price hike in annoying, but they are still worth it.  I often DS these guys to get some nice side and rear armour shots with these bad boys.  Deep striking them has been very affective so far.  I don't always do it, but it is something to consider. especially if you opponent has high armour, good cover or hiding like a coward.  

As for the formation.  I have not run this formation, but I have run a Grotbom with a WWP Haemonculus and loved it so far.  I have though about maybe giving the Archon or Haemonculus a WWP to give me the option to DS reliably into an area where they are really needed because sometimes you just can't make it across the field in raiders?

Scissorhands on the Haemonculus seems like a good option, because sometimes Rending comes in real handy.

I am excited to try running to units of Grots.  They seem like a good meat grinder unit that slows the enemy down, and might actually kill something nice in combat. I am wondering if units of 3 are enough?  I figure with T5 they should be alright.



This army look good enough to compete? I am a very experienced general with my share of Best overalls and best gens so I am sure I can make this list work.  Just curious as to what you guys think?

Sorry for the bad grammer.  I am typing the fairly long post in a hurry.  

Time to make me some nice burgers. YUMMMM!

It looks very good. Just remember with DE you are not going to overpower them with your list alone... that being said on Signals from the Frontline (the podcast by the guys running the LVO) Reece mentioned Frankie was wasting dudes with his Dark Eldar... so I'm sure they're up to the task.

As for your list you've got tons of anti-infantry, good anti-flyer and a good anti-tank wings. From what I hear Dreadknights, Draigo and Centurions are going to be all the rage so I think you've got the volume of fire to deal with it. However you may want to consider taking the Helm of Spite on your Archon that can be a very nasty surprise with all the psychic shenanigans going on these days.

All that being said this is a great well balanced army, if you maintain good target priority you should be able to tackle anything that comes your way.

Thanks Cavalier.

Yeah I do like this list a lot as it seems to have all of the tools that I need. I will definitely think about the helm as it does look very useful. But having a kabalite gun boat sound really nice as well. Having a hard time deciding.

I usually play competitively so it is hard not adding eldar as allies as they compliment dark eldar so well with speed, durability and high rate of fire medium St and ignore cover shooting. I want to try mono dark eldar and see if I can make the buggers work for me.

Do you know what kind of armies you will be facing?
And what are the restrictions for the tournament?

Your list is not very far from the list I will bring to the Swedish Championship. This tournament requires a CAD and an optional ally OR formation. However this thread is about your list, not mine.

What I see it 8 skimmers and two mediocre flyers. It’s been a long time sinse anyone around here was scared of de flyers :p So I will suggest not to include them. However that is based on my tournament scene.

Trueborn with blasters, vs a third ravanger, I like three ravangers, thay can start to work from turn 1. I suggest a third ravanger. If you whant to keep the blasterborne, get the pts from the archon. Replace the archon with a single lhamean with a venom, and repcle one of aberrations agonizer with a sicssorhand. That brings you to 1850pts on the spot. And you add two additional skimmers.

And that’s some of my thoughts, hope this helps. And best of luck with the tournament.

I like the list. Similar to my tourney list except I don't include the 2 flyers.

Are you running CAD or RSR? I didn't catch that anywhere in your post, but it could fit into either. I've found RSR adds some survivability to my list T1 (basically giving me the old flicker fields back), which has ben really helpful, and my troops (same setup as yours) tend to hang back and grab objectives later, or are dead and I'm losing, so ObjSec isn't that big a deal.

You have the list to deal with most threats. The grots are solid, and can take out most things reliably, except TEQ, but you have the tools elsewhere to deal with that, so pick your targets. In my meta, theres still the aegis/quad hangover from 6ed, so I don't bother with my flyers, but if you're sure you won't get intercepted before they are useful in most games, then they deliver a nice payload, and provide a S value, which is good for DE vs light vehicles if required.

I'd like to hear how you go at this tourney, and in your practice games. Its very similar list to what I'm taking to my tourney coming up in late January, and its good to hear how it will go in different metas.

-Fioater

The LVO is run by front line gaming and they use the BAO rules. You can use two sources to puck your army from. Only one CAD. So you could have a CAD and either a formation, allies, low. Allies can't be from the same army. This may have changed a bit.

The BAO has a lot if net lists going on. Lots of knights, cent stars, guard blobs with extra crap, eldar etc...
Haven't seen many quad guns for awhile so not too concerned about them.

The flyers have been amazing for me so far. They are mostly for AI and 1 flyer has zero problems removing an entire MEQ unit from board in a single shooting phase. The lances help with the rest.

Oh yeah! Taking the CAD instead of the RSR. I like objective secured and prefer the rerolls on strategic as opposed to the dark eldar traits

I'd love another ravager. But won't have time to paint up a 3rd one. If I can find the time I will. However. The blasterborn and raider give me 5 lances dropped in on my opponent instead of 3 from the ravager. And when the raider jinks I still have 4 active blasters. That's why I chose them over the 3 ravager.

I will do up battle reports when I get some games in for sure. I am working waaay up north so it will be about 3 weeks until I get a game in. I am debating on this list or a mostly dark eldar/eldar reserve/DS list. It'll have 1-2 serpents for sure. 1 fire dragon, 1 avengers. It's a solid scary list.

I like the list and have been wracking my head around how to get the Grotesquerie to work to my liking.  Being limited to only 2 sources actually would help me since I always want to throw Eldar into a competitive build.  I would make a few changes to your list, and most of them are personal preferences and how I would run things.  It keeps the same bones of your list but moves some things and points around.

Here it is:

HQ
Archon w/ Agoniser, Shadow Field, Helm of Spite (You were thinking about it) 150
I feel the Helm of Spite is a luxury and would rather have almost an entire Grotesque for it, but I felt like you wanted it and it could prove its worth.  Also, I don't think you need both the Armor and Shadowfield.  I personally rate the Agonizer higher as it can effect all Toughness targets.

ELITE
5 Trueborn w/ 4 Blasters
Venom w/ Extra Cannon- 180
I always try to make my units be able to do two things.  Those Blasters come down, open up a tank, the Venom then shoots the contents.  Also, the Venom is easier to hide and DS down with as it has a much smaller footprint.

TROOP
3x5 Kabalites w/ blaster
Venom w/ Extra Cannon.  120pts X3= 360pts
Good to go here.

FAST ATTACK
5 Scourges w/ Haywire blasters. 120pts

2X Razorwing jet fighters w/ Dark lances.  140X2=280pts
Good to go here as well.  This is my Fast Attack often times.

HEAVY SUPPORT

2xRavagers w/ Dark lances. 125X2=250pts
Good here as well.


FORMATION-GROTESQUERIE

Haemonculus w/ Scissorhand- 80pts
Haemonculus w/ Scissorhand- 80pts

3 Grots w/ Aberration w/ Scissorhand
Raider- 185

3 Grots
Raider- 165
I don't personally like Night Shields and would use the points elsewhere.  I added another Haemonculus so both squads can have the boost to the PfP turn. Also, both squads become really good in CC.  I would put the Archon in with the non-Aberration unit so it balances the CC options a bit.

Again these are my personal preferences with your army template.  I threw in the Helm because again, it seemed like it might be something you would want.  If not, I would remove it and the Aberration and throw another Grot in the unit with the lone Haemonculus.

Let me know what you think.

Would you mind posting your reserve/deepstrike dark eldar with eldar allies list for me colinsherlow? I would like to compare it to my list for my upcoming games. Thanks!

Yeah I can do that tonight after work. Will post edeas on that list and add a few comments to SPC later.

I cant wait to see your Deepstrike List!

SCP Yeeman: The help of spite is definitely a luxury. I might try it, but can already tell that I would rather spend the points elsewhere. The agoniser is definitely the better choice on the archon. I will go with the tried and tested agoniser. I gave the archon the armour not because of the improved save, but for the negative LD bubble around the archon. Sometimes you just need to break that unit. It's not just for his unit, but if he drops near a few enemy units, my shooting can force multiple LD checks at -2. Which is really very nice and worth the 15points.

As for the Trueborn in Raider. I put them in a raider because I only have 3 venoms built and painted. I will put the Trueborn in a Venom and 1 Kabalite unit in a raider instead.

I am not normally a fan of night shields except for certain units. Normally I wouldn't bother with night shields on Grot raiders. BUT! since they are my main assault force I feel that having a 3+ jink will increase their chance of getting there. But yeah I will try without sometimes as well to see if I notice a difference.

Thanks for the reply. I am really excited to give this list a try.



Coffeeslinger this is for you.
Now for my Deep strike/reserve army

This is an army that would probably be quite a bit more powerful if I concentrated more on getting a few more eldar units, but I want to stick with more dark eldar if I can. The list that has more eldar has better AT and AI, a little more durability and the tools to deal with imperial knights even better.

Here is the mostly Dark eldar DS/reserve army.
I have played list like this lots. My 5th ed army was similar minus the allies. I started 6th ed like that as well, but with only allowing half of your units to deploy my plans had involved more eldar.

1850 points on the dot.

DAEK ELDAR (primary, CAD)

Archon w/ WWP and blaster. 110pts

5 Trueborn w/ 4 blasters
Raider w/ Night shields. 185pts

5 trueborn w/ 4 blasters
Venom w/ Extra splinter cannon. 180pts

2X 5 Kabalite warriors w/ Blaster
Venom w/ Extra splinter cannon. 120ptsX2 = 240pts

2x Razorwing Jetfighters w/ Dark lances. 140ptsX2=280pts

5 Scourges w/ 4 Haywire blasters. 120pts

2xRavagers w/ 3 Dark lances. 125ptsX2=250pts

2 Talos pain engines. 240pts

ELDAR ALLIES

Autarch w/ Fusion gun. 80pts

3 guardian jetbikes. 51pts

6 Warp Spiners. 114pts


This list looks really fun to use, and I am used to playing with lists like this so I shouldn't have many problems playing it. The Vegas missions have the normal missions as the primary mission (I think 4pts for a win?), and modified maelstrom as the secondary (3pts I think?). Slay the warlord, first blood, and line breaker are bonus points (so 3 possible). Whoever had the most points in the winner of the match.

This list is pretty solid in that it has speed/ DS, spiders, bikes for objectives and maelstrom points. Starting with most of the force off of the board makes it very likely that I will hit my opponent first and get first blood. also line breaker won't be a problem. Slay the warlord could be a problem, but we'll see. The bikes will be good for getting maelstrom contesting objective points and actually capturing objectives if they manage to survive that long.

This list will usually just start with the Talos, and maybe the scourges on the board. Everything else will likely try and show up on turn two via DS and reserve. I can easily put my entire army against a smaller portion of my opponents and kill them with overwhelming fire power on that side. Target priority will be key in this army. The two units of trueborn should be able to put the hurt on just about anything from TEQ to MC's and AT.

One thing I would maybe like to have different in this list is maybe having a Shadowfield on the Archon so he can tank wounds for the unit so that will have a better chance at staying around a little longer when targeted. The Archon/Autarch and 4 blasters will put the hurt on any vehicle of MC that they feel deserves their attention.
One other thing I was thinking of is maybe changing one of the Kabalite units into a gun boat of 9 Kabalites. I'd have to drop the blasters and maybe a warp spider to fit that, but 9 Kabalites coming in from reserve or deepstriking (possibly with the archon or autarch if seems a better choice that game) and unlading 18 twin linked shots. They are good for protecting the back line or putting the hurt on someone being too aggressive. They have always done well for me.

Done typing for now.

Enjoy

The good thing is that you can swap out the Armor for the Helm and be good to go. I would probably get rid of the Shadowfield then. Those 40 points (+10 from the Helm switch) could definitely be put to good use. Again, just my thoughts and personal preferences.

I would try to find the 5 points for a Haywire Grenade for the Archon. With the Shadowfield and a little luck, he can actually hold up quite well in close combat with an Imperial Knight. I tried standing for it for 4 complete rounds, and that is immensely more fun if he actually have the possibility to hurt it too.

I love the Grotesquerie, have only used it once but it trounced everything in it's path. One bit of advice: I am good (online) pals with Reece & Frankie and I'm almost 100% certain that single Llamaean HQ's will NOT fly in their rules-pack, so I'd rule that bollocks right out!
The list looks to have a good balance of AT/AI threat and I wouldn't dismiss the Razorwings either; unless you deal with them they will cause serious damage and they're our only real AA units, along with Voidravens. Scourges with 4 HWB seem a no-brainer, why would you not run them? I plan on taking 2 units like that eventually.

Timatron wrote:

One bit of advice: I am good (online) pals with Reece & Frankie and I'm almost 100% certain that single Llamaean HQ's will NOT fly in their rules-pack, so I'd rule that bollocks right out!

Actually, they covered their ruling in episode 293 of Signals From the Frontline. It does fly. In fact they reviewed Frankie's list on the most recent episode in which he takes two in Venoms for his HQ choices.

What? That's such bullshit! I'm dissapointed in them, I really am..........
Saying that, if the LVO council has ruled, who am I to argue? Now, where's that 1000 point list I was trying to write with Howling Banshhes in a Raider?...........

Heard about the Llamaen thing. I haven't done that, but don't see a problem with it.

I almost played Frankie at Tshft earlier this year in Seattle in the final rounds.  Ended up playing next to him instead.  His armies are solid and he's a good player for sure.

Stoked to be going to the LVO again this year.  I'll do a report on it afterwards.  If I do almost as well as last year I will be stoked.  The guy that beat me was the guy that won LVO with his pink eldar seer council/baron/serpent spam army.  It was a crazy close game. Made the guy sweat. He was a very nice fella. He underestimated my mostly reserve/outflank army.  

Can't wait to try the grotesquerie.  It looks fun.   On the fence about that list or my reserve one.   And whether or not I should use the better list that includes a bit more eldar

I think the list looks pretty damned solid, might have to steal a bit of it for my own lists

colinsherlow wrote:

Stoked to be going to the LVO again this year.  I'll do a report on it afterwards.  

Any plans to hit the BAO? I can't make the LVO because I'll be going to the NHL Outdoor Classic game that weekend (Sharks), but plan on making the BAO. I'd love to interview a few DE players for the podcast. Let me know.

When is the BAO? I was back from my turn around at work, but didn't know it was the week I was home in July. If I had known then I would have gone to Cali.

anyone know if there is an ETC Canadian team? if not how would I go about getting one on the go?

colinsherlow wrote:

When is the BAO?  I was back from my turn around at work, but didn't know it was the week I was home in July.  

I haven't heard anything solid on the date, but the venue last year was only a 35min drive from my house and I have the entire summer off (teacher), so the date isn't as important for me

About starting an ECT team just email the guys at Frontline, Reece is the man usually manning the email machine and he's a super friendly guy that gets back to you super quick. He's all about spreading the tourney network so I'm sure he'd be more than willing to help you get a team going if there isn't one already.

colinsherlow wrote:

When is the BAO?  I was back from my turn around at work, but didn't know it was the week I was home in July.  If I had known then I would have gone to Cali.

anyone know if there is an ETC Canadian team? if not how would I go about getting one on the go?

There has not been a Canadian ETC team. At least in 40k. I would recommend contacting Tomepnk in warhammer.org.uk forum.

Yes, Tom Adriany is the man you want to have a word with.

Thanks guys