How to make Mandrakes playable?

The Shredder wrote:

Wait... strong as Krak missiles? Could you elaborate on that?

Oops! Sorry, I meant FRAG Missiles.

I enjoy them so much more than before but what they need most of all is there 5++ back.

Case and point: Sat in a trench and ripped a guard squad apart with baleblast. Lost one from return fire from another unit. Got assaulted by 7 veterans. Killed 2, lost the rest because FnP is not a reliable save without an armour save first!

Grub wrote:

I enjoy them so much more than before but what they need most of all is there 5++ back.

Case and point: Sat in a trench and ripped a guard squad apart with baleblast. Lost one from return fire from another unit. Got assaulted by 7 veterans. Killed 2, lost the rest because FnP is not a reliable save without an armour save first!

I'm not sure how big your starting unit was, but I guess you had 7 left, so you each had the same amount of models in the fight. Vets usually do not have two CC weapons, so 2 attacks each? You have the same amount of attacks but with +1S,+1WS and+2I compared to vets and they have a 5+SG and you have 5+FNP. Oh and overwatch. Statistically you should have won, not because of your bad save but because of your better attacks ;-)

But that does not change the fact that a 5+FNP after round 2 as your only save in CC is pretty bad. So try to stay out of CC.

My only change to mandrakes would be to give them the daemon special rule. That would help them a bit more.

And don't forget to make people roll for fear.....

Crazy_Irish wrote:

I enjoy them so much more than before but what they need most of all is there 5++ back.

But that does not change the fact that a 5+FNP after round 2 as your only save in CC is pretty bad. So try to stay out of CC.

My only change to mandrakes would be to give them the daemon special rule. That would help them a bit more.

This sums up my thoughts exactly. I'd love for them to have a plasma grenade equivalent, but they just wouldn't be true Dark Eldar with assault grenades [/quote]

megatrons2nd wrote:

And don't forget to make people roll for fear.....

Then you remember you're playing Marines, and that the design team could have replaced all references to Fear with photocopies of their rears, and it would have made no difference whatsoever.

The way of the true kin, either pack "some" armour or make sure you strike first XD

Crazy_Irish wrote:

Grub wrote:

I enjoy them so much more than before but what they need most of all is there 5++ back.

Case and point: Sat in a trench and ripped a guard squad apart with baleblast. Lost one from return fire from another unit. Got assaulted by 7 veterans. Killed 2, lost the rest because FnP is not a reliable save without an armour save first!

I'm not sure how big your starting unit was, but I guess you had 7 left, so you each had the same amount of models in the fight. Vets usually do not have two CC weapons, so 2 attacks each? You have the same amount of attacks but with +1S,+1WS and+2I compared to vets and they have a 5+SG and you have 5+FNP. Oh and overwatch. Statistically you should have won, not because of your bad save but because of your better attacks ;-)

But that does not change the fact that a 5+FNP after round 2 as your only save in CC is pretty bad. So try to stay out of CC.

My only change to mandrakes would be to give them the daemon special rule. That would help them a bit more.

Oh no it was a squad of 5 to begin with, 4 by the assault phase. 7 Vets charged me with a sergeant with cc weapon. He passed his fear test and I sucked at rolling to hit! They also had Carapiece armour on so the 4+ helped a lot! Not a close combat unit and not one to put into close combat. But the best way to deal with them is to assault them because of the lack of saves! Couldn't really draw him into shooting at them!

Statistically perhaps they should of won, but you cant trust math hammer in a proper game!

On topic. I still think they are a cool unit and for the price its not really that bad, just needs a 5++ like they used to have. For an increase in the points of them I would expect to have a better shooting attack (maybe something like the old flamers of tzeentch rules but on projectiles) and a funky teleport rule or just a removal of the infiltration restrictions would be more cool.

Grub wrote:

Oh no it was a squad of 5 to begin with, 4 by the assault phase. 7 Vets charged me with a sergeant with cc weapon. He passed his fear test and I sucked at rolling to hit! They also had Carapiece armour on so the 4+ helped a lot! Not a close combat unit and not one to put into close combat. But the best way to deal with them is to assault them because of the lack of saves! Couldn't really draw him into shooting at them!

Statistically perhaps they should of won, but you cant trust math hammer in a proper game!

On topic. I still think they are a cool unit and for the price its not really that bad, just needs a 5++ like they used to have. For an increase in the points of them I would expect to have a better shooting attack (maybe something like the old flamers of tzeentch rules but on projectiles) and a funky teleport rule or just a removal of the infiltration restrictions would be more cool.

Well that does change the math-hammer quite a bit ;-) just compare the point costs of both units. The vets are over 100 and 5 mandrakes are 60p... and you rolled bad :-P

I think 5 mandrakes are too small to be effective. Try 8-10 and then you can at least hope to do something with them.

Oh don't worry I've tried I even used them last edition, for reals. But even in big squads if your playing against any competent player, they tend to ignore shooting for the best part and will just flame them. I can about cope with one flamer wiping a small squad but not one I've invested points into. I use mandrakes on occasion as a small point filler where more bodies on the board can be helpful.

A big squad of 10 would be pretty painful against IG, Stormtroopers, Tau firewarriors (if they ever come back) and if your opponent wants a shooting match then fine by me. The cover saves are great. Its just when they realise that torching them, using ignore cover rules or just hitting them with something tough in assault will rid them. As they stand they are an annoying unit. You stick them somewhere and they niggle. That can be useful sometimes to direct a bit of fire away from the bulk of the army which may help.

Mandrakes are the mosquitos of 40k. They are a pain to get rid of, the bite is annoying but really they don't serve much of a purpose besides having cool fluff, a great sculpt and grabbing linebreaker. But that's as far as I can see them currently.

Grub wrote:

Mandrakes are the mosquitos of 40k. They are a pain to get rid of, the bite is annoying but really they don't serve much of a purpose besides having cool fluff, a great sculpt and grabbing linebreaker.

I was nodding in agreement to the comparison until everything after "besides"

...You really like the sculpt mosquitos have? And the whole insect-lore is awful!

Its never bugged me before Lets also ignore the whole malaria thing as well. On second thoughts Mosquitos are far more playable then mandrakes.

That jink...