1850 Competitive list

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Realspace Raiders Detachment) ++

+ HQ +

Archon [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Kabalite Armour, Shadow field, Splinter Pistol, The Animus Vitae, The Helm of Spite, Webway portal]
-Joins the heat lance Scourges-

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [9x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Raider [Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks]

Kabalite Warriors [9x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Raider [Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks]

Kabalite Warriors [9x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Raider [Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks]

Kabalite Warriors [9x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Raider [Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks]

Kabalite Warriors [9x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Raider [Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks]

+ Fast Attack +

Scourges [Scourge]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]

Scourges [Scourge]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]

Scourges [Scourge]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]

Scourges [Scourge]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]

--All in here to demech, DeKnight-
+ Heavy Support +

Talos
Talos [Close combat weapon, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

Talos
Talos [Close combat weapon, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

--Turn one Anchor for Null deploy.--

Thoughts? C&C?

Lorn wrote:

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Realspace Raiders Detachment) ++

First off, let me just say that I love that you just flat out stated 'competitive' in your ask here - it makes it very clear what you're hoping for. I'm never sure what to say to people asking for army advice on 'fun' armies.

I'll now note that Realspace is an interesting choice here, as though the 4+ or 5+ inherent cover save is pretty nice, but it comes at the cost of ObjSec, and you are only breaking your FA total by 1 slot, which could easily become something else. So I suppose my advice is - if you play a lot of objective based missions in competitive play that ObjSec is pretty bloody potent. RR is powerful if your local gaming group often has desert style boards with no real terrain where the extra save is really important.

Lorn wrote:

+ HQ +

Archon [Close Combat Weapon, Haywire Grenades, Kabalite Armour, Shadow field, Splinter Pistol, The Animus Vitae, The Helm of Spite, Webway portal]
-Joins the heat lance Scourges-

I don't really like this build. Functionally he's a cheap shooting support for the Scourges...but for some reason he has a lot of points spent on stuff that is...odd. How much protection are you looking to bring to the Scourge squad by tanking wounds on your Shadowfield? How many times are you planning to fire your Scourges at an infantry squad to use the Animus? With a non-scattering DS do you need both the Blaster and the HWGs? I think you could shave points off him very easily at no real loss to his core purpose.

Lorn wrote:

Kabalite Warriors [9x Kabalite Warrior]
Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
Raider [Dark Lance, Nightshield, Splinter Racks]

This is not a bad build, though I personally find Venoms superior to Gunboats in basically every metric.

Lorn wrote:

Scourges [Scourge]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Heat lance]

Fine.

Lorn wrote:

Scourges [Scourge]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]
Scourge with Special / Heavy weapon [Haywire Blaster]

Fine.

Lorn wrote:

--All in here to demech, DeKnight-

I actually am of the opinion that haywire is only so-so at de-meching compared to lances, though they are a good Knight killer.

Lorn wrote:

Talos
Talos [Close combat weapon, Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster]

--Turn one Anchor for Null deploy.--

Okay, so the goal is for everything else to start in reserves?
Why are you bothering with RR then? Is it really just for the Scourges? Heck, take a Ravager and get 3 lances and same sort of deal really and you get ObjSec and aren't wasting ObjSec for a detachment that is giving you no benefit.

Lorn wrote:

Thoughts? C&C?

I like the basic concept you're going for, though think the full null deployment is risky. Also, I can't help but note that I think a DE primary/Eldar allies army would be able to do what you're looking to do here, but do so better.

I would say the big risk to my mind is anything going first while running Grav bikes or drop Sternguard, as both of those armies are probably going to be able to saw through the Talos with a solid bit of aplomb and just give you a bad day potentially. So if either of those sorts of lists are in your meta be mindful of how you're hiding the Talos and bury them deep.

I think you're wasting points and advantage on the RR formation and will also admit I'd probably tend to convert Gunboats to Raiders and then used freed up points to purchase additional units.

Wonderful! First off I want to say how happy I am to see a community that actually has an OPINION on lists not just throw ideas away. Thank you for your intelligent response.

My meta is very competitive. The top player in our area atm plays Tau with Knight allys. Running more interceptor then God and two knights as line backers.
---------------
HQ:

So your absolutely right on the Archon. He is purely there to drop the scourges into melta range on a knight or some other problem I have to deal with. I don't need buy any other gear on him but the 2++. The reason I take the 'Nades is so I can add another hit onto a knight if I have to. Or I take the ap2 item to benefit my whole army when I shot at say a centurion squad for example. I want to use him as a delivery mechanism that is hard to take down as well as able to help put a shot out.

but you're right, I definitely can shave points off of him.
---
Troop:

I honestly don't like venom's very much, and I do realize that is a differing opinion of many DE players. By taking a venom you get lots of shots, but only with two HP's and if you jinx you've now ruined your shooting platform.

I prefer to use Raiders due to having three HP's, I like the 3+ cover save, and I love the splinter racks. The thing I'm also not sold on yet is dark lances. With the scourges I dont really need them I feel. When you jink, because you will, the one shot looking for a six sucks compared to the three shots looking for 6s imo.
----
FA / Real space

I love. Love scourges. I really feel like they are one of the best things in the book. I love these babys. 24' haywire guns are amazing. Knights are -Prevalent- in my meta and local GT's. So figuring out ways to deal with them are a driving force behind some of my list building.
---
Heavy
Talo's are just there to give me a bottom of turn one shot or two. Also anchor for board pressence.
---

So we get to the Real space raiders for real here. I just want that extra FA slot. My games are so much Board the other player or be boarded I haven't had to deal with OS so much, so the extra group of scourges has been amazing.
I feel that turn two is where dark eldar are amazing. In my trolling around this great site I noticed that alot of other people are loving the null deploy.

Just wanted to explain. I think I will change up the archon to be more of a shield atm. But Only my Alpha test, so thanks for the quick feed back!

Not getting Tau'ed off the board on turn one is the biggest thing that can happen, and is huge.

If Tau/IK is your only concern I see your point with the extra FA slots, allthough I would probably try to get closer to 6 units here.

If you're aiming at a more general competitive tournament list, I would very much fear the drop pod armies, as many of these will have no problems dealing with your Cronos turn one, leaving you loosing without ever firing a single shot. The null deployment is generally used with the Scalpel Squadron, which allows you to deepstrike two venoms with wracks turn 1, giving your opponent 4 units to deal with before autowinning, with the added possibility of them going first, making it impossibly for him.

Your HQ is illegal. He cannot have both the Animus and the Helm.

Where does it say I can't take more then one?

Dark Eldar Wargear List:

Quote :

Only one of each Artefact of Cruelty may be taken per army.
A model may take one of the following:

Lorn wrote:

Wonderful! First off I want to say how happy I am to see a community that actually has an OPINION on lists not just throw ideas away. Thank you for your intelligent response.

Lorn wrote:

My meta is very competitive. The top player in our area atm plays Tau with Knight allys. Running more interceptor then God and two knights as line backers.

If he runs more Interceptor than God - why are you going for a reserve based list?

Lorn wrote:

I honestly don't like venom's very much, and I do realize that is a differing opinion of many DE players. By taking a venom you get lots of shots, but only with two HP's and if you jinx you've now ruined your shooting platform.

I prefer to use Raiders due to having three HP's, I like the 3+ cover save, and I love the splinter racks. The thing I'm also not sold on yet is dark lances. With the scourges I dont really need them I feel. When you jink, because you will, the one shot looking for a six sucks compared to the three shots looking for 6s imo.

A lot of thoughts here, and I want to respond to all of them, so bear with me, this might go long.

Let's try to keep it organized, you are presenting the following thoughts/opinions;

1. The Venom is inferior to the Gunboat.
2. Partly due to 2 HPs vs. 3.
3. Partly due to jinking.
4. Partly due to splinter racks.
5. Also - is the lance worth it as compared to the dissie?

Let's address some of these;

1. I disagree with this. Back in the day I loved the Gunboat, but GW is either dumb, or GW doesn't liek the Gunboat build, because GW has continually made changes that suggest the Gunboat is the inferior option.

2. The battle of 2HPs vs. 3HPs looks solid when you are comparing a 65 point Venom to a 60 point Raider, until you stop and think about things. First off, your Gunboat build here costs 185 points. A Venom build would cost 120. So the appropriate compare/contrast is 2 Gunboats (370) vs. 3 Venoms (360) At that point it is 6 HPs vs. 6 HPs and the Venoms cost less - so how exactly are you getting less Hull points of protection? I don't think you are. Also, frankly, the hull points have less to protect so are more valuable to you in that way as well - especially since our vehicles are often exploded, not wrecked.

3. I will agree that Gunboats benefit from jinking. Venoms, meanwhile, benefit from an inherent 5+ save. So it's a 4+ save that forces a snap fire or a 5+ save tat doesn't. I personally consider that a pretty fair trade, and don't find one breathtakingly better than the other. Even paying for the n.shield to get the 3+, though nice, if I simply tuck my Venom behind a shattered wall I get a 4+. So is the +1 save worth paying that much more for? Especially with Tau and Eldar and IG able to ignore cover in any case? Like, say you're fighting your Tau pal and he lights you up with markerlights...suddenly your jink is meaningless, while my 5+ invulnerable save is pure magic win. Which of us is better off?

4. Splinter racks are an illusion and not worth their points in my opinion. I just did the math for another thread so allow me a bit of copy/paste;

The Gunboats get 2 lances and 26 poison shots (44 within 12") in 6 hull points.
The Venoms get 3 lances and 36 poison shots in 6 hull points (12/24 more if I count the inside Troops).

So, with BS 4 and the twin linking as a consideration - the Gunboats will hit with 1.33 lances and 23.1 poison shots (39 within 12").
The Venoms will hit with 2 lances and 24 poison shots (32/40 if counting the inside Troops).

As the above numbers reflect, the Gunboats are only able to do more damage than the Venoms within 12" - outside of 12" the Venoms are superior, and the Venoms can do that with a 42" threat bubble, whereas the Gunboat only has an 18" threat bubble. So Gunboats are markedly slower than the Venoms, and not able to bring their poison to bear remotely as well in my opinion.

So, what are the splinter racks getting you exactly? They're actually not boosting your damage that much. They give a slight bump when snap firing at FMCs, but it's not much of one - and the further the range difference is the stronger the Venoms are, and even at point blank the Gunboats aren't putting out more firepower. So what is it that the racks are getting you? The ability to weakly compete with a Venom? Whoop-de-dee!

5. Well, if you're going to be jinking constantly than, no, a weapon upgrade is not an optimal buy. That said - on the turn you drop in the lance will still be useful to help pop open mech in order to allow your troops to mow down the infantry targets as you can't really afford your Troops to be firing many blasters to do that, as their points are needed firing upon infantry.

Lorn wrote:

I love. Love scourges. I really feel like they are one of the best things in the book. I love these babys. 24' haywire guns are amazing. Knights are -Prevalent- in my meta and local GT's. So figuring out ways to deal with them are a driving force behind some of my list building.

I deal with a fair amount of Knights as well (though I also get a lot of Eldar) I would say the lance is better against Eldar (and Tau for that matter) and the haywire better against Knights - but if your goal is a TAC list it is helpful to not be too custom built one way or the other.

Lorn wrote:

So we get to the Real space raiders for real here. I just want that extra FA slot. My games are so much Board the other player or be boarded I haven't had to deal with OS so much, so the extra group of scourges has been amazing.

If your goal is simply extra FA there are other ways to get there, is all I'm saying.

I'm at work so I'll reply later, Saving this spot. Just want to say thank you for the in depth discussion again.

I suppose you have a special kind of codex then
Dark Eldar Codex: Dark Eldar Wargear list. Page 69 (The paper-book version. No clue about digital versions)

Scroll down to where it says "Artefacts of Cruelty.............................pg 109"

There ought to be two lines of text between this line and the first item (The Parasite's Kiss).