Dual Splinterborn

I'm considering replacing 3 blasters (from 3 standard Kabalite troop squads in Venoms) with, effectively, 2 Cannons and replacing one of the troops with Trueborn for the same cost.

Does anyone use 2x Splinter Cannons on a 5 man Trueborn (probably with a Venom) squad?

Any comments on cost efficiency or sensibility?

As ever when looking at special weapons bearers, my first comparison is always against scourges - 4 scourges with splinter cannons in a 5-man unit cost you 140 and kick out 27 shots at 18" when moving up to 12", for a total 30" range.

Splinterborn come in at 150 with dual cannon venom and 2 splinter cannons, but their shooting (when moving 12") is then 12 shots at 36" (total 48" range), 3 shots at 24" or 6 at 12", and 12 at 18". That's a maximum result of 30 shots, though if you're moving more than 6", then 18 of those are snap firing.

Without sitting down to crunch the efficiency numbers and try to account for all the different variables (such as the venom being blown out of the sky or jinking) I'd be inclined to say if I want splinter fire, then I'm going to go calling for scourges, not trueborn.

That is, of course, accepting that the Fast Attack slot can be pretty crowded in our list. My preference for splinter fire is still the basic ten man warrior squad in a raider with splinter racks, it can deep strike for effect and is in the least crowded slot in our entire codex

Prior to our current dex I had been running a splinterborn unit (3 with 2 cannons in a venom)... it was a lot of fire for 130-odd points.

Now with 2 extra bodies and more expensive guns? Haven't thrown it in yet... I've actually been a little curmudgeony about Trueborn (rather, Blasters) lately... but I won't derail this with a wingefest.

Bottom line, for a similar cost, you get a trade-off.

Personally I view any vehicle as a buffer layer. Sure, a round of heavy bolter fire (think dev squad, here) can expect to reasonably destroy a Venom, but we've got decent Ld vs the pin check and then we're good (for another turn, at least).
That same firing at the squad would have easily meant a dead squad. Even if you take an explosion into account, Trueborn are (hopefully) getting a re-rollable 5+ (FnP) instead of (likely) having their armor ignored, or being killed outright by heavy weapons.

So, general survivability bump. Trueborn will also be able to split fire between two targets, giving tactical advantages.

Scourges have a higher operational speed (12" + fire), while the venom has a higher top speed for objectives (30" flat out).

Long story short, I'd throw it solidly into the "Test it out, they both seem pretty legit" category.

Excellent comments from both of you. Unfortunately, for my lists, Fast Attack are always going to be full. I rely on my Scourges for my anti tank with Haywire.

For comparison sakes, I was specifically interested in the Kabs in a Venom holding a blaster, or 2x Splinterborn in a Venom. As you both mentioned, both from uncrowded slots

Hellstrom wrote:

Excellent comments from both of you.  Unfortunately, for my lists, Fast Attack are always going to be full.  I rely on my Scourges for my anti tank with Haywire.

For comparison sakes, I was specifically interested in the Kabs in a Venom holding a blaster, or 2x Splinterborn in a Venom.  As you both mentioned, both from uncrowded slots

In that case, you're looking at about an extra 30pts for the trueborn and retaining the same issues over range and movement (if you move, the 'normal' kabalite unit has the range advantage, whereas staying still clearly favours the trueborn).

Interestingly, that actually comes out at 15pts per splinter cannon, or exactly the same cost as providing a splinter cannon to a warrior unit (sorry, that's of no relevance whatsoever, my brain just latches onto these things).

In that instance, I'd probably be inclined to say that the trueborn are worth it, you kind of don't want to be moving those venoms too much anyway. Comparing the two without the venom shots, (which are the same for both units), moving the warrior option gives you 4 snapshots at 36" total range (including the movement of the vehicle) whereas the trueborn unit would get 12 at 30" and 3 more at 36". you're basically looking at 0.666 hits from the warriors, or 2.5 from the trueborn, albeit at a slightly reduced range.

You also have to account for the fact that the lesser range on the warrior squad means that they're more likely to have to move to get a target, whereas the trueborn with a much greater natural reach can stay still.

Example. One of each type of venom starts on your table edge. the Trueborn venom can stay still and put 24 splinter shots into a target 36" away. The warrior venom can hit targets 36" away, but needs to move 12" to do it, meaning it has only 12 full BS and 4 snapfiring splinter shots at that target.

The only benefit in that case to the warrior unit is the blaster and the 30pts saved (and the blaster shot!). I'd argue though that a single trueborn venom of that type can realistically put out a similar amount of fire to two of the warrior venoms, and can split that fire between targets if necessary, so the points cost is more than recovered.

I may actually be persuading myself to try this!

My thought process completely. We might actually have a use for Trueborn !!!

Just to add, I've actually realised that, of course, Venoms on their own are actually just better .... 150 points for the Trueborn squad, or (if you have room somewhere), 130 points for 2 Venoms. More movement, more survivability. I hadn't used my HQ vehicle slot and I had 1 spare FA slot (Realspace Raiders). So, I have 2 venoms instead and 20 points to spend