Torment Grenade Launchers (+ Chain-Snares)

First of all, excuse me if this exact same question has been asked before, but I didn't find anything that looked like what my question is about.

I am seriously considering to take Torment Grenade Launchers and Chain-Snares on my Raiders that are transporting a unit which reduces enemy Leadership by 1 and the other by 2. I have a third formation that can potentially lower it by 3.

The question is, which armies are susceptible to this tactic and if it really is useful with only max 3 LD reduction.

To my knowledge it would be the following armies:

• Chaos Space Marines
  
• Chaos Daemons
  
• Eldar
  
• Tau
  
• Orks
  
• Necron
  
• Tyranid (once synapse is broken)
  
• Adepta Sororitas
  
• Astra Militarium
  

Not sure about the recently newer added armies though, like the Adeptus Mechanicus or the new Mechanicum?

Anyway, are these armies truly susceptible to this tactic?

Yes, but you'd do yourself a service by increasing your leadership negatives. Remember the bubbles from Freakish Spectacle stack between formations. With Harlie allies you can get up to -4 (plus -1 for each HC formation) on the table. CWE add another 12" -12 bubble into the mix as well.

I run Freakshow lists, based entirely on the leadership game, so I've been waist deep in these ponderances for a while now.

I personally think it depends on meta, but around my original club TGLs were just too expensive given how many marines you saw. My newest gaming group (I moved recently) has far fewer marines, and I've occasionally taken them if I have enough points to spare.

Jimsolo wrote:

Yes, but you'd do yourself a service by increasing your leadership negatives.  Remember the bubbles from Freakish Spectacle stack between formations.  With Harlie allies you can get up to -4 (plus -1 for each HC formation) on the table.  CWE add another 12" -12 bubble into the mix as well.

I run Freakshow lists, based entirely on the leadership game, so I've been waist deep in these ponderances for a while now.

I personally think it depends on meta, but around my original club TGLs were just too expensive given how many marines you saw.  My newest gaming group (I moved recently) has far fewer marines, and I've occasionally taken them if I have enough points to spare.

I've read your topic; great stuff, but I play a pure Haemonculus Coven-only army (mostly for fluff, but they look too damn awesome not to) with the Scarlet Epicurean, Corpsethief Claw and Grotesquerie formations. Can't put in anymore formations for an 1850 battle so -3LD would seriously be the max at this point.

Gotcha. No worries, I started the Freakshow idea as a mono-Covens one.

I would take the chain snares (or possibly the rams if you don't have much anti-tank) and leave the TGLs off unless you happen to have the points to burn and nowhere better to put them.

Why exactly would you take the chain-snares but drop the TGL's? Is it because, point wise, the chain-snares are worth the gamble, where as the TGL's are not with that low amount of LD reduction?

Because if that's the case, I think I'd prefer not to even take the chain snares. I've got 2 units of Grotesque's inside Raiders that, together with 2 Haemonculi, webway portal their way into realspace and liquifying anything within range. At the moment these are 2 Liquifier Guns per unit (including the Haemonculi) but I might just crank that number up to 3 LG's to increase the chance of roling that AP 3 or less and invest the 10 points remaining from teh chain-snares into something else.

That or next to the Aberration that are already wielding Agonisers; i'd give the Haemonculi Agonisers as well, considering they are the only ones with a higher general initiative than most enemy units.

Definitely no shame in dropping both! I'd be inclined to. Any points in snares or launchers are just gravy points--if you can spend 'em on more meat and potatoes you probably should.

Personally, I leave the LGs at home and stick a Scissorhand on my Abberation, but that's just me. The low S on LGs makes them not worth their points, imo. If you face enough horde to sway the balance in your meta, then by all means rock on with it, though.

Where's your AT at, out of curiosity?

Jimsolo wrote:

Definitely no shame in dropping both!  I'd be inclined to.  Any points in snares or launchers are just gravy points--if you can spend 'em on more meat and potatoes you probably should.

Personally, I leave the LGs at home and stick a Scissorhand on my Abberation, but that's just me.  The low S on LGs makes them not worth their points, imo.  If you face enough horde to sway the balance in your meta, then by all means rock on with it, though.

Where's your AT at, out of curiosity?  

Portalling next to a unit and unleashing 3 Liquifier templates seems just too potentially devastating to pass up. That being said, I decided to give them these Liquifiers because I want to Deep Strike my Grotesque's into combat, as I don't see the point between moving flat out into my enemies and being able to do nothing vs, portal-ling into combat (most likely in the 2nd round) and being able to do some tactically well placed template terror. (not to forget tactically well placed crucible terror)

I'm aware of the low strength, but it's better than just portal-ling next to my enemies and not shooting anything. On average you can hit about 4 models with a Template and especially if I get to portal next to them in such a way that I can get the best angle to do so. According to Mathhammer I would do about 2 wounds to MEQ while I'd be doing 5 wounds against GEQ. Combine that with 3 DC shots from the Raider and that should be doing some serious damage; in my humble opinion enough to justify portal-ling right next to a potentially dangerous unit.

The main targets of my grotesques are MEQ and GEQ. If they'd be TEQ hunting I would consider giving them Scissorhands, but the Aberration just rips MEQ to shreds with the to wound re-rolling Agoniser. It seems just too deadly to pass up. The Haemonculi both have Scissorhands though, but considering they are in the same group as the MEQ and GEO targeting Grotesque's that doesn't add anything other than that the Haemonculi at least have a bigger chance of killing MEQ.

My anti TEQ and MC unit is the Corpsethief Claw unit with 3 Heat Lances. (had to give 2 of them Haywire Blasters, because I need a little extra anti Vehicle, while retaining ranged anti TEQ and MC options).

So, just to make sure I understand, out of 1850 points, the Corpsethief is your only Anti-Tank unit?

That is indeed correct since playing a Haemonculus Coven only army sadly has no other options except for maybe adding dark lances to the raider.

Makes me wish they'd allow Scourges since they're a Haemonculi creation. Or something like Wracks with wings and an Armourbane version of the Ossefactor.

Can I ask some questions about chain snares?

I run a Coven/Harlequins Freakshow (though I think it may need some Kabalites). I haven't tried chain snares yet because I'm not sure how best to use them. Theoretically, by tank shocking a unit, I can:
-make them fall back to a position hopefully more favorable to me
-make them fall back off the table if they're close enough to the board edge
-destroy them if they are in, or if I can engineer, a situation where there's nowhere for them to run while maintaining coherency, such as by parking other Venoms or Raiders around them before tank shocking

Do they have other uses? What about Fearless and And They Shall Know No Fear? Are there advantages to just making a unit Fall Back if it isn't positionally helpful?