Mandrakes

Hey guys,

I'm thinking of getting some Mandrakes to add to my Haemonculus covens list. Not sure how to get them in yet in terms of CAD or not, but I was wondering how people use them?

I was thinking that at 36pts for a unit of 3 it would be great if I could find some way to spam lots of them e.g. 5x units of 3 for 180pts. Infiltrated into ruins or other cover would give small points units for my opponent to have to deal with.

Also, my local players would have something fun to try and deal with instead of all my Talos.

They are good, unless your opponent has any ignore cover weapons. IF he does, you won't get to roll any dice at all. On the flip side, at 36 points, this might not actually matter most of the time, just be really careful not to give away First Blood. You can always Outflank them if you think this might happen.

36pts to deflect their ignore cover weapons away from something more valuable seems worth it. I'm thinking that they would likely be more of a threat at 60pts for a unit of 5 so that they can accomplish something useful with their shooting when it's their turn.

Against Tau, Marine Scouts and a bunch of other Armour 4 guys, a unit of 5 of them can put down some ok damage. Certainly enough to warrant them sending over something to root them out.

Anything that takes some fire away from my Corpsethief claw would be good

i used them few times, they shred away IG, fun when 5 mandrakes charges in a 2hp leman russ and glances it to death , tau can take hurt from them too.
Cheap distract unit they are fine i guess, tho not that shadowy assassiny stuff they are in fluff but fine

I rarely field them, due to squishiness, but this S4 is delicious. If I do field them, however, I put them in squads of 10 - they can dish out some serious hurt while infiltrating (each shots 2 S4 AP4 Soulblaze shots at 18, that's nothing to scoff at) and the army I found them to bo the best against is, for funzies, Dark Eldar - they can reliably penetrate and wound most of our models, while getting the protection of cover, as the only IC weapon in our army are Medusae.

liquifier too

Quote :

liquifier too

Due to it's subpar stats, it's rarely seen in tournament lists and even if, it's usually installed on units that are too slow to reliably hunt mandrakes.

I try to squeeze three into nearly any list. But that is because my friends use a lotof infiltrate/scout. For 36 pts you have a 50:50 chance of denying your opponent infiltrate

Well, I am just starting to try them out - preparing to first try, so here are my musings:
Unit of 10. Its measly 130 points, but it can put a dent into anything AP4 or less, can hurt even vehicles, but most importantly... since I am trying more assaulty list and KRP - they eat overwatch like candy when charging from cover. :-) So all those crazy overwatches you can get from Tau, etc. just bounce off of them. Consider an absurd 60 - shot overwatch from Tau Fire Warriors - 10 hits, 7 wounds, 1-2 dead Mandrakes. In addition they ARE a real threat. Even MEQ can get 2-3 dead from shooting and 2-3 dead from assault. Which means that unit of Devastators or whatever can eat dust and your Drakes will still be standing at the end of the fight. And if somebody sacrifices an absurd amount of shooting onto a 130 pts... well... good... :-) Of course as everything in the game, they do have counters - templates, Ignore Cover weapons, Markerlights. But these cannot be everywhere and that 18'' range is good enuff imo.

Anyone else uses them in larger units?

I like them. I frequently use a squad of 10 and they usually do very well, but I tend to play fluffier-style armies, too.

Another point in their favour is that people don't suspect them, even after you go over your army list with them - they only half listen, "Oh yeah, those guys *nudge, nudge, wink, wink*" Then you wipe out 80-90% of something flanking you on turn 1, and it's "Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot?".

I try to get them into cover near the centre of the board, and they typically occupy a good portion of my opponent's attention for a turn or two, or make them alter their strategy by avoiding them.

Exactly. They can be the priority changer. Up until now I have been searching how to get my killers of the KRP (Incubi, Hellions, Court, even the Warrs and TB - all without nades) into assault. Contrary to many articles I read on the net, I still consider assault viable, given its sufficiently supported. Yes, its high-risk, but well... its high reward. So I am trying to learn tankshocking off cover, but I was missing that one thing that would trouble my opponent for at least 1 turn to leave my assaulters alone. I believe Drakes can do it. They are not Scorps with their ultimate "PwrFist"... but hey... they are one of us and not bad... :-)

I used a nine men squad against the last Eldar. They stayed out of line of sight and rushed forward to glance his serpent to death in the last two turns.

I use two units of five. Against MEQ they're not amazing, but they are useful if your opponent has stuff they want to infiltrate and they deny them that. Anything less than MEQ and they start getting pretty good in terms of damage output, especially if you can double team them with something that's a more conventional threat. People tend to ignore them if there's something like a Venom nearby, because unless they're ignoring their cover they're wasting their shots to get rid of a dirt cheap unit. Mine only tend to die when opponents get frustrated with the rest of my stuff dancing just out of range and want consolation points Baiting stuff into risky charges can be a lot of fun too, sitting them inside or just beyond cover whilst peppering an onrushing unit with shots, only for their charge to fail and the mandrakes to move backwards further can be very demoralising...

They are great in maelstrom games. Getting onto objectives in the first turn can be extremely useful, and has allowed me to gain a foothold in games. They're especially useful in the one where you draw as many cards as you control objectives, or the one where your number of active objectives decreases by one each turn, as they can get you capture and control ones with minimal effort if deployed correctly. I wouldn't ever want to use them in a unit of ten though. I have accepted that if they get flamed, they're gone. I know they're still cheap for a unit of ten, but it gets to a point where you've invested too many points in them just to distract something or stop something shooting at other stuff. I'd only field them as a squad of ten if I needed to make points up by sticking in another elite choice or something.

I understand the reason behind 2x5. But I tend to play Highlander lists as my games are friendly. Thats where 1x10 seems better to me than 1x5. For something more competitive I would probably do as you do.

I don't ever use them. I have a very low evaluation of their capability.

They are better than they were for sure, still not on par with other options but they are our only infiltrator and our only defense against armies such as the White Scars.

I really want to like Mandrakes. I love their abilities on paper, and I even built a custom conversion unit. But they really don't seem to do much besides drawing enemy fire, and sure, as long as they get shot something else doesn't. But is that reason enough to take them? Maybe I should try 2 units next or a bigger unit than just 5. They are cheap though!

I'm torn between fielding them in minimum units of 3 or maximum units of 10. It's a shame you can't take 5x units of 3 in a single cad

Likewise, I wish they were available to Covens, thematically they seem a good fit.

Mandrakes are neither Coven nor Kabal or Cult, right?

Right, but their fluff fits in my mind with creatures following around stalking the shadows behind the Covens

There's even a coven (forgot which one) in the supplement that make heavy use of Mandrakes.

My first 10 should be arriving this week, but it may be a couple of weeks before I get to field them.

Jimsolo wrote:

I don't ever use them.  I have a very low evaluation of their capability.

This.

The main problems for me are:

1) Their damage output just isn't impressive. Or, more precisely, their range isn't impressive. I won't say that I never run into 4+ save units, but they're just not the sort of units I have issues dealing with. What I usually need more of is anti-tank weapons.

2) Perhaps more importantly, they don't fit the core concept of most of my DE armies - i.e. mobility and, to a lesser degree, range. For such a fragile army, I find the ability to redeploy at a moment's notice invaluable. Maybe I want to flank several units round, maybe I want to hide some units ready for a strike next turn, maybe I want to make a dash for an objective - whatever the reason I like all my units mobile. Mandrakes, in contrast, are basically stuck in position once deployed.

Similarly, I like my 36" splinter cannons and such because it means I can often shoot an enemy, whilst avoiding a significant chunk of return fire - or perhaps force him to move out of cover if he wants to fire back to full effect. Mandrakes just don't have that capability. Nor, if an enemy moves towards them, do they have the option to just scoot back 12" and carry on firing.


That being said, I think Mandrakes have some of the nicest models in our range and I've already converted one to an HQ:

Spoiler:

Now all I need is for our HQ choices to stop being a load of piddle and I'll be set.

Interestingly, what are people's thoughts on Mandrakes vs Necrons - Necron Warriors have a nice 4+ save than Mandrakes fire pours right through, whereas you'd need a lot more fire to get through their durability from splinter fire. Assuming they have a 4+ Reanimation protocols (i know that's not right, but I'm broad brushing it to allow for lesser rolls with rerolling 1s) the Mandrakes are approximately twice as effective as the same number of splinter shots, while being considerably more durable in return if they're in cover (against most things).

I'm not saying it's a game-winning strategy but enough of that sort of firepower might divert some units to deal with them as a road block...

I don't think it's worth it tbh. Whilst splinter fire requires more shots it can also have twice the range of mandrakes. And, given the choice, I'd much rather rely on out-ranging Necrons than winning a 'fair' firefight against them. Especially given that mandrakes are themselves out-ranged by Necrons.