Citadel Finecast... (Not happy)

I know that this topic is under Random Musings, but seeing as there isn’t a "grumps" area it will have to do... My gripe is with the announcement of citadels new “finecast” miniatures.

So I’ve just recently brought lots of so called "New" Dark Eldar and then GW goes and from what I can see (I might be wrong...) re-release's newer and more detailed versions of what I’ve already got! Thus making my Warriors and Archon, inferior GW products after only a few months!

It’s like being in PC gaming scene when your brand new graphics card may as well have come from the Stone Age a few weeks down the line... What does everyone else think about this announcement?

No need to worry about your warriors becoming inferior; they are only making finecast with the models that are (for now) metal. So yes, the metal archon will be slightly inferior. One advantage the metal one has however is that it can be bent, which the resin finecast cannot be. Might feel small, but it is something.

the increase in price is the main grumble from me. I never bought the new incubi as i had old ones - and got the more important stuff first. I had intended to buy them - but now they are £5 more???? Not sure I will bother now. Maybe just keep an eye on ebay instead.

I like the hobby, and understand prices go up with all things - but sometimes gw prices dont make sense to me. So they lose sales.

Everyone raises their prices. From Privateer Press to Infinity. Griping about it is pointless.

Not everyone raises their prices as much as gw. Also keep in mind that along with this new finecast price increase they plan to increase it even more with their yearly increases

I don't mind finecast, I like resin personally and only have the new archon and 5 incubi in metal. I needed an excuse to get another archon to make Slisicus us out of any way.

Despiciens wrote:

Not everyone raises their prices as much as gw. Also keep in mind that along with this new finecast price increase they plan to increase it even more with their yearly increases

Hey... I hate to break it to you, but GW makes the Dark Eldar line. If you're gonna QQ, go somewhere else.

The price rises do not concern me too much, (I’ve always believed GW to be an Adults hobby anyway) it just becomes a little disheartening to know that models such as my Archon are now outdated, as there is a difference between paying the increase for Models you haven’t got yet and having to models you’ve already got. (How big is the quality difference expected to be?)

I’m good to hear that the Warriors are not being replaced with finecast versions. Is there a list anywhere of what is and isn’t being replaced?

Just a side note; I’m not against the release of finecast as progression has to be made, it’s just annoying to come so soon after the Dark Eldar re-release. (There will always be a looser… even if finecast was released back in November; I’m sure people who brought the latest army before Dark Eldar wouldn’t be too chuffed either…)

One thing I do welcome about the new material - is hopefully it will be easier to covert, less likely to chip, and more suitable for gaming.

I liked the feel of metal - but it was a pain for any kind of conversion work. After gaming for a while the paint would wear/chip off. On uneven ground top heavy metal miniatures would always fall over and break easily.

Ariensis wrote:

I’m good to hear that the Warriors are not being replaced with finecast versions. Is there a list anywhere of what is and isn’t being replaced?

Basically, every metal model will be replaced, one time or another.

I read a couple of reviews for the new Finecasted models, and basically theres no real difference with regard to detail. The difference is price and material. Metal may chip when dropped, but the new stuff may break due to brittleness. It's something we'll have to see as we go along.

Seeing the new Tomb King advance orders today I'm not really blown away with so called super detailing, or crispness. Future releases may benefit from the change, but our current range won't. Will the new heamy model really be that much better than Urien?

The moulds for current models, scheduled for change over, are rumoured to be 100 models per month. Obviously most popular first.

darkmark wrote:

The difference is price and material.

Exactly. The Archon wil not be 'outdated' or anything. The model will be exactly the same, it's just made from something else now.

As someone who has worked with resin a fair amount (my traitor guard is all FW Vraksian Renegades) I've got to say it has it's advantages and disadvantages. It is easier to assemble and clean up, but is really brittle and subject to snaping. I look at some of the models advertised as finecast and cringe (tombking with whip).

As to pricing I gripe not about the price rise but the obvious weighting of good units vs bad (Mandrakes vs Incubi which cost the same before becoming finecast).

As someone who actually MADE things out of resin (this is, khem, about 1/3 of my BA stuff, pointwise) I would say that resin is serious step back, ESPECIALLY since Finecast seems to be made in metal (not rubber) molds, just like plastic.



If I'm right then bye bye curved details. They also rip off on something that could be done in plastic.

Just because I don't like GW difference between rubber and steel mold:

Blue is flexible sillicone mold, grey is NOT flexible steel mold, pink is place where you SHOULD get curved surface BUT due to lack of flexibility you must have straight line or else your "product" will broke/stuck.

GW annual fail (third I suppose)...

Have they said they use the existing moulds? Or have they used the old moulds to create new ones for the new resin process?

I wont slag them (GW) off until I know all the facts and have seen the results. Until then I will remain optomistic.

It seems that the detail level isn't that much different then, judging by the comments here. I'm glad of that.

Just out of curiosity, why did they change from metal to fine-cast instead of metal to plastic? I always think that the plastics are really nice and don't suffer from any lack of detail.

Anyway, thanks for Allaying my fear's guys.

Essentially its a cost cutting excercise: metal prices are going up rapidly. This new material is cheaper, and will yield greater profit margins.

It should mean greater price stability, as I believe PrivateteerPress gave when moving away from metal, but if you think GW will pass that on to us, the customer, you haven't been in the hobby very long

shadow hunter wrote:

Have they said they use the existing moulds? Or have they used the old moulds to create new ones for the new resin process?

I wont slag them (GW) off until I know all the facts and have seen the results. Until then I will remain optomistic.

I guess they use new molds made from "refreshed" master models. My friend had occasion to see new TK models and said they look good.
So while old sculpts still look like crap (puny Eldar Lords) they are probably fine quality crap.

For the most part I thinking "hyper detailing" is more of a buzz word to calm down trolls regarding the transition. I wouldn't have bothered buying the "outdated" models if I didn't feel they were well detailed in the first place.

What I am really looking forward to is the weight reduction and the ease of using the new material for conversions. Hybrids (metal/plastics) were always ungainly beasts but a light weight materials will allow everyone to build some really crazy models that will pretty much defy gravity. My archon conversion (poor top heavy bastard) is hopefully the last hybrid that will ever pass through my hands.

How much tensile strength the materials have is something I'm going to have to determine when I have some of these new models in my possession but to play devils advocate and inject a ray of sunshine (hey where is everyone going?) imagine the whip from an earlier post that you could drop into hot water and reshape to compliment the model you are constructing better. If it works I could live with that.

The most important thing to remember is that if you grab up a finecast model you are working with a different material. If you treat it like metal you will probably bugger it up. This doesn't mean the material is inherently inferior it just means we need to learn how to work with it.

I would very much like to see a review from someone who has worked with the new Finecast material. Is it dangerous like ForgeWorld resin models? How easy is it to bend parts? What about conversions using plastic? Etc, etc.

A quick evaluation of the finecast material. The other day I stopped by the local GW bunker and grabbed the new white dwarf dwarf and a finecast succubus. The guys at the shop had a selection of pieces out of the boxes on the sales floor for everyone to check out. This included the finecast sprue the new models are boxed with to I was able to subject the material to a few more agressive tests without potentially writing off models.

First up lets talk about detail. Finecast does seem to carry detail from the molds better (looks like I was wrong). A couple models stood out in particular. I wasn't aware of the detail the components from the anvil of doom had. The helmets of the hearth guards had been textured with fine lines and I thought it was flat. The anvil itself had iconography I'd never picked out before including wispy tracery of a beard that wasn't nearly as clear on the pewter. This detail strikes me as one that would be especially difficult to transfer as the lines were especially fine and the gaps between them were shallow. When resin casts don't work bad things happen. Air bubbles in the molds happen and a jump pack got it in the intakes. Micro bubbles are an issue with resin pieces. The dwarf mag suggested paint filling defects or worse applying superglue. Do yourself a favour and use Tamiya Mr. "non-GW" Surfacer.

There are no warnings on the package apart from the 0-3 nogo. From what I understand finecast is a composite resin-polymer plastic. Its characteristics are somewhere between the two materials.Tensile strength seems reasonable. There is some decent flex to it at room temperature. Drop impact didn't shatter a piece. It carves very well with a sharp blade. It doesn't clip terribly well, clip the resin tags away from your model and do a final clean of the model with the sharp blade. This stuff is light. This alone opens up a mountain of conversion potential. The material bonds crazy with super glue. The last two statements have me thinking that pinning smaller conversions will not be necessary any more.

Additional tests I still want to try are the hot water bend test and having a go at it with sanding films.

horrid wrote:

Additional tests I still want to try are the hot water bend test and having a go at it with sanding films.

On the review I posted from Dakka, a hairdryer did the trip without any problems. Another bizarre tool to add to the hobby tool box.

Xelkireth wrote:

On the review I posted from Dakka, a hairdryer did the trip without any problems. Another bizarre tool to add to the hobby tool box.

That's what I've always used when bending FW stuff. So it's not that bizarre . Besides, most of us will have a hairdryer lying around somewhere, even if it's from your GF/wife/pet.

Radium wrote:

Xelkireth wrote:

On the review I posted from Dakka, a hairdryer did the trip without any problems. Another bizarre tool to add to the hobby tool box.

That's what I've always used when bending FW stuff. So it's not that bizarre . Besides, most of us will have a hairdryer lying around somewhere, even if it's from your GF/wife/pet.

Pet?

Xelkireth wrote:

Radium wrote:

Xelkireth wrote:

On the review I posted from Dakka, a hairdryer did the trip without any problems. Another bizarre tool to add to the hobby tool box.

That's what I've always used when bending FW stuff. So it's not that bizarre . Besides, most of us will have a hairdryer lying around somewhere, even if it's from your GF/wife/pet.

Pet?

Poodles, I guess. With their fur.