KDK with CSM allies help please

I have a campaign match coming up. I'll be at 1300 points and he will be at 1200 points. I know he has a Heldrake that he is likely to use and quite probably 3 Obliterators. Any hints on what to take please?

You can mitigate his obliterator by jinking (NS will help with that). Once he deepstruck them, they are dead. Poison shots will take care of them.

The helldrake is a real problem because DE don't have a response to that beast. Your best option is to MSU (go warriors in venoms rather than 10 men squads in raiders). It can kill max 2 units per turn, less if you spread out.

I would go with mass venom with haywire scourge to support them and take care of potential land raiders/Daemon engines.

Razorwing or void raven with lances. That's the only thing I can think of. But you'll need 2-3 flyers.

Poison shots vs 2+ Saves are not good .....

I don't think I have any reliable way of killing a Heldrake unless it lands and that's not my choice.
Because of this I'm thinking that running people inside transports at all is a bad idea.

I'm thinking 5 Venoms (2x 5 man Kab squads deployed outside the Venoms to hold objectives), 3 Ravagers (1x Dissie Rav and 2x DL Ravs). I don't know whether a Razorwing is a good idea or not, or whether I should just take more Venoms.

Not only one but two Razorwing and perhaps an additional void raven. There should be some missiles that can really hurt the Obliterator squad...? I don't have our codex at hand at the moment.

Our poison is often very good against 2+ armor, because we can throw a f--kton of it.

I think your outline looks good (and probably similar to what I would recommend). There's very little you'll be able to do against the Heldrake, except ignore it (or possibly throw Snap Shots at it if you have nothing else to shoot). Personally, I wouldn't get the warriors out of the Venoms until they get shot out (you can always reposition them to a better firing spot with their transport, then Flat Out back to the Objective once any threat has been eliminated).

I would be inclined to eschew the Razorwing for other things, personally.

If he uses a Drake and 3 Obliterators you are pretty save with a more "standard" list as he spends a lot of points on only 4 models (we are talking about around 400 points.. thats 1/3 of his army).

Thanks for the help people

KDK is a MSU rush list by nature. If he's playing to the books strengths I would expect lots of walkers, hounds, drakes, daemons. Melee focused NOT a lot of ranged firepower, what he does have will likely come from the CSM side.

Heldrakes lost the 360 shooting so its actually pretty limited although still a good unit but better vs meq than us. Out maneuver it ideally. Its also rear armour 10 and can't fire its template if it jinks. It has a 5++ inherently but you can still force jinks with lances so a razorwing is actually a consideration here although not necessary IMO.

I'd suggest disi cannons for your anti meq/teq. So many DE players seem to avoid taking these but they are nightmarishly good against meq. I'd probably take 1 DC ravager at least although you do want sufficient AT in this match too.

Lances crack the 2+ and insta kills the obits.

Though a Rasorwing is not very good as anti air, the Lances may make him nervous and let him jink the Drake.

Considered an aegis or bunker with an aa gun?

Quote :

Lances crack the 2+ and insta kills the obits.

As Obliterators are not part of KDK and he has to ally them in I expect them to have MoN.

Yeah I wouldn't run oblits without MoN.

Can't take fortifications. What is "MoN"?

Mark of Nurgle for toughness 5 Obliterator...

Mark of Nurgle (+1 T)
Also if he does uses an allied detachment (in additon to KDK) he has to have 2 HQs which are also quite costy in such a smallish game.

I would probably expect him to have a CSM CAD (HQ + Drake + Obliterators, probably Cultists as cheap troop) and a KDK Formation (Gorepack -> Bikers + Hounds)

So 1200 points could look like this:

CAD: Chaos Space Marines
1x Khorne Lord on Juggernaut, Axe of blind Fury, Sigil of Corruption
2x10 Chaos Cultists
1x Obliterator, MoN
1x Obliterator, MoN
1x Obliterator, MoN
1x Heldrake, Baleflamer

Formation: Gorepack
3x Bikers, 2x Melta, Champ with Kombimelta
3x Bikers, 2x Melta, Champ with Kombimelta
5x Fleshound
5x Fleshound
5x Fleshound
5x Fleshound

Perfect. Thanks guys

This has changed slightly. It's now 1300vs1300. The mission is purely Kill Points and no objectives with no secondaries. 1 point for every unit killed. You also get to choose a "Leader unit", this leader unit get D3 points for every unit it kills, but gives away D6 if killed itself.

I can't decide whether to go MSU and just try and kill more than him (my normal style of play), or to go with a few mini death stars.

If I were to go the Death Star route, I unfortunately I don't have the models for the obvious choice here, the CtC .... But I was thinking Dark Artisan (Leader unit?), a large Grotesquerie (2x 5 man squads with Aberrations) and a minimum Scalpel Squadren, what do you guys think?

Sounds good for me. But the corpse thief would've been perfect! Too bad.

Hellstrom wrote:

This has changed slightly.  It's now 1300vs1300.  The mission is purely Kill Points and no objectives with no secondaries.  1 point for every unit killed.  You also get to choose a "Leader unit", this leader unit get D3 points for every unit it kills, but gives away D6 if killed itself.

I can't decide whether to go MSU and just try and kill more than him (my normal style of play), or to go with a few mini death stars.

If I were to go the Death Star route, I unfortunately I don't have the models for the obvious choice here, the CtC .... But I was thinking Dark Artisan (Leader unit?), a large Grotesquerie (2x 5 man squads with Aberrations) and a minimum Scalpel Squadren, what do you guys think?

Wow its gonna be a blood bath, sounds fun. CTC would be ideal to double dip on KPs but I think the grots will work out nicely too. ID weaponry for multi wound units like hounds and agonizers for meq. I'd still recommend MSU for the rest. You want to match his predictable MSU. Bring plenty of dark light since that army can put down more nasty walkers than anyone plus they double out multi wound models which they have plenty of too. Unfortunately if he does spam walkers your grots are gonna be in a hard way so I'd anticipate prioritizing them highest on the kill list.

Quote :

This has changed slightly. It's now 1300vs1300. The mission is purely Kill Points and no objectives with no secondaries. 1 point for every unit killed. You also get to choose a "Leader unit", this leader unit get D3 points for every unit it kills, but gives away D6 if killed itself.

If this was his idea i would expect a deathstar unit.

It's not his idea, but he does also know the game type ... After reading a bit, I'm a bit worried that he'll just turn up with a Bloodletter and a Daemon Prince or 2 and just wipe me out if I try and take our "strong units" .... Don't know what to do !!! I'm thinking I might be better off just trying to shoot from range and hide a lot once I'm in front.

Do you know his collection or his usual setups?

With this mission rules I (as a KDK player) would probably stay away from my usual "in your face!" MSU rush list and try to focus on models that are hard to remove as a DE player.

In my mind this would be Soulgrinders, Heldrakes, Maulerfiends and Skull Cannons.

List could look like this:

CAD:

1x Bloodthirster

8x Bloodletters w Bloodreaper
8x Bloodletters w Bloodreaper

1x Heldrake w Baleflamer
1x Heldrake w Baleflamer
1x Chaos Rhino


1x Soulgrinder w Phlegm
1x Soulgrinder w Phlegm
1x Maulerfiend w Tentacles

That looks 100% terrifying ............. I only know he has Obliterators and a Heldrake. Not much use.