Teach me the error of my ways!

I got this idea from arguments like this that just go on and on. The last time I played against the new Space Meringues, after playing v. Craftworld Eldar, Necrons, Tau, and so on, it was the last straw for me and I decided that I give up on 40K for now. My dark eldar just can't deal with all this new stuff.

If you think that I'm wrong, that I'm overreacting and exaggerating, why not show me? My space meringue-playing friend (the same one) has agreed to help us with a demonstration. Here is his 1500 points list:

GLADIUS STRIKE FORCE

Space Meringue Battle Demi-Company:

Captain, Artificer Armour, Relic Blade (Warlord)

Tactical Squad 1: 9 meringues w/flamer, heavy bolter + veteran sergeant w/power maul + Rhino w/ searchlight, hunter-killer missile

Tactical Squad 2: Same as Tactical Squad 1

Tactical Squad 3: Same as 2 and 1

Assault Squad: 4 assault meringues w/ 2 flamers + sergeant w/ thunder hammer

Devastator Squad: 4 meringues w/ 4 missile launchers, flakk missiles, flying baby + veteran sergeant w/ signum

Armoured Task Force:

Techmarine

3 x Predator w/ Autocannon, searchlight, 2 x Heavy Bolters


And now the fun part! Armed with this foreknowledge, let's build a list using any or all models in my collection tailored specifically to fight against it.

When we've done that, I'll take a picture of the playing table and you can guide me step by step, from deployment to movement and everything. I won't make any decisions, I'll just roll dice and let you know how it went, then follow your next instructions! But first we need to build a list.

How about it? Any volunteers?

Yep! I am interested. I have used some of my google-fu to find out about what his formation is up to. I am trying to imagine how a SM player envisions the downfall of Barking Agatha. There will be devastators perched up high in the deployment zone, trying to get a good look of the field. They are well equipped to destroy a raider a turn.
The Rhino squads will probably roll behind/beside/near the predators with transport capacity for the techmarine to pop out and be helpful. The preds will obliterate whatever they target and can ignore shaken/stunned results.
I suspect the tactical marine squads will combat squad, if they still can, at the beginning of the game, so that the heavy bolters can add to the massacre of DE vehicles from turn 1. Ruin the mobility, SM wins!
The assault squads may be held back in deep strike but I suspect he won't mind throwing them forward with the mech wall and daring you to take it all on at once.

This will be a wonderful game for a DE player to win. I am going to assume that this mission is something along the lines of Crusade and perhaps not objective based? Back later once I have Battle Scribed!

It's 4 in the morning and my baby woke me up so I can't make a complete list right now. And battle scribe wants money now

I got a question first: am I right when I don't see any Ravager in your collection?

DEfan wrote:

This will be a wonderful game for a DE player to win. I am going to assume that this mission is something along the lines of Crusade and perhaps not objective based? Back later once I have Battle Scribed

We don't know yet. We usually roll for the mission when we're ready to start. Isn't that the usual way? We can make any changes we want, if my 'coaches' say so.

CptMetal wrote:

It's 4 in the morning and my baby woke me up so I can't make a complete list right now. And battle scribe wants money now

I got a question first: am I right when I don't see any Ravager in your collection?

No, it's there: the Poison Spike. Take your time! This is just the first bit. It will probably take us weeks to get through a whole game

Had a look through your project log. If i haven't already commented on it, lovely work

Here's my list made from what you've got:
archon belfrit (using agoniser, blast pistol, shadowfield, soul trap)
4 grotesques inside raider (dark lance, stealth - belfrit joined)
5 incubi in venom (double cannon)
5 trueborn in venom (double cannon, 4 blasters)
2x 10 kabalites in raider (raider lance,Stealth and splinter racks, kabalite lance)
6 reavers w/2x caltrops (or split these into 2 squads if you like)
5 scourges with haywire blasters
Ravager with 3 lances and stealth

This clocks in at 1461 points, so you've got points to play with and with that many lance shots, you shouldn't have too much trouble with vehicles. There's also a considerable amount of poison and twin linked poison in that list to deal with the deliciously large amounts of footsloggers in the SM list.

Please let me know your thoughts on this list and good luck!

Love it! So we will play it normal at a glacial pace. Looks like my response got beaten but here it is anyway!

Based on what I can see, this space marine force has good mobility, but here are the limitations:
They don't have ignores cover except for the flamers as deterrents for reavers and flaming open topped vehicles if they get close.
They don't have psychic powers to get ignores cover.
The bulk of the destruction will come from the predators and the devastators.
It will take marines 2 turns to make a linebreaker move.
Only one squad can deep strike.
They have generally one attack in assault.

Here is my first list:

Archon: power sword, splinter pistol, soul trap, haywire grenades, plasma grenades, shadowfield
Grotesques x4, Raider, Dark lance, enhanced aethersails, nightshields
Kabalite trueborn x5, 3 blasters, Raider, Dark lance, , enhanced aethersails, nightshields
Kabalite warriors x5, 1x blaster Raider, Dark lance, enhanced aethersails, nightshields
Kabalite warriors x5, 1x blaster Raider, Dark lance, enhanced aethersails, nightshields
Kabalite warriors x5, 1x blaster Raider, Dark lance
Kabalite warriors x5, 1x blaster, Venom, 2x Splinter cannons
Venom, 2x Splinter cannons
Dark Artisan formation- Follow me my children, Freakish Spectacle,
Haemonculus, webway portal, scissorhand, splinter pistol, The Panacea Perverted (IWND4+)
Chronos, spirit probe, spirit syphon (FNP 4+ to DE units within 6")
Talos, TL heat lance, close combat weapon, chain flails

So the basic idea is to hide, zoom and shred. Hopefully the coven beasties will stick around deep in field in cover and munch up the SM line, while the Kabalites zoom about being very annoying to hit and ping side/rear armour as the SMs adjust to the proximity threat.

That's right, no ravager here. I find it very hard to justify them with lances.

One list should suffice...
Which one do you want to take? My list would've been like the first one without the Incubbi but another Venom squad.

Don't have time at the moment to make a list but I think this is a fantastic idea and I'll be following this thread with interest.

Damn. The list that I created lacks two Venom and four grotesques and two Medusa :-/
Medusa are key to cripple his devastor in one go. The grotesquerie to soak damage and the cheap standard squads to dish out damage and control victory points.

Quote :

They don't have ignores cover except for the flamers

If I remember correctly the Predator Squadron gets ignore cover (which would be 3 Auto Cannons and 6 Heavy Bolters)

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

Quote :

They don't have ignores cover except for the flamers

If I remember correctly the Predator Squadron gets ignore cover (which would be 3 Auto Cannons and 6 Heavy Bolters)

No. Armoured Task Force gives them bonuses to repair and ignore shaken and stunned. Having 3 vehicles in a squadron gives them tank and monster hunter.

Interesting rules query though. Armoured Task Force requires 3-5 units chosen in any combination from the following list:
- Vindicators
- Predators
- Whirlwinds

If you take 3 Predators to meet this requirement, they would have to be in separate units IMO in order to count as 3 units. They therefore would not be a squadron and would not get tank/monster hunter. Anyone got any thoughts on this?

No tank hunter? That's great news! So what list will it be Agatha?

Lol, only models from your collection, or can I mail you models for the game?

Oh. That's a great idea! Give her something to play with, maybe try something new. Spark her evil character once again!!

Which completely defeats the purpose. You are asked to show off your superior tactics, not your listbuilding. Model count is limited (probably for her opponent too as the Marine list is quite soft and fluffy) so work with what you have and not what you would like to have.

First Agatha your models are insanely cool! I would tailor my list to whatever you desired to play against you. Anyone who wouldn't is a tool IMO.

So I'm totally on board with this. Cute anecdote- I recently crushed a similar list, well gladius + triple vindis and with a grotesquerie no less. Most of the mech was actually wrecked in assault since I had brought a 'friendly' list with very little anti tank. Grots got called "the best assault unit in the game" lolz.  

Back on track, before I build a list give us some info on YOUR preferred style of play. Assault heavy, MSU, ICs or no ICs etc. I'd like to build something your comfortable piloting and familiar with at least. Oh and whats the terrain like where you play?

Edit: Last question, any room for counts as regarding weaponry/wargear etc or purely wysiwyg?

Klaivex Charondyr wrote:

If I remember correctly the Predator Squadron gets ignore cover (which would be 3 Auto Cannons and 6 Heavy Bolters)

That's stalkers that get ignore cover with a full unit.  He doesn't have those thankfully, as while they can only skyfire - that hits our skimmers anyway.  They also have interceptor and can fire (9 strength 7, 48" shots) at 2 seperate targets.

They can basically wreck all our transports, flyers, and ravagers; often before they ever shoot unless there is lots of LOS blocking cover.

O ya and they're cheap

Wow! Okay, how about this:

Belfrit with Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Soul Trap, and Shadow Field
+ 4 Grots on their Raider, with Dark Lance and Night Shields

The Shrine of Resentful Spite (Incubi) on a Venom with Extra Splinter Cannon (*)

The Heirs of Loathing (Trueborn) w 4 x blasters, on a Venom with extra splinter cannon.

The Pink Candy Pack: 10 Kabalites, one blaster, pink candy raider with dark lance, night shields, and splinter racks

The Blue Candy Pack: 10 Kabalites, one blaster, blue candy raider with dark lance, NO night shields, and splinter racks

The Grens, Bluegrens, and Redgrens: 3 x 3 Reaver Jetbikes with 1 caltrops each

Heartrip Eyrie: 5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters

The Poison Spike: Ravager with 3 dark lances

(*) The Incubi don't actually have a venom, but I guess they can borrow the Snow Madds ride.

I want this to be really participatory, so if you want to make any changes, please say so! On Tuesday we'll set up the table and you can tell me how to deploy, and maybe on Thursday we can play the first turn.

Nice, that's a solid list for this game. I'd like to see an aberration with agonizer in there and HWGs over the blast pistol. Rest is almost dead on to what I was messing with.

I'd put the true born in a Raider with night shields. You want them to survive and that's better using the Raider. More hull points and a better jink. Don't forget that your opponent will want your true born dead as fast as he can and you'll be jinking anyway. So your Splinter canons will be useless.

Cool, let's roll with Agatha's list!

This is a fantastic idea. I don't know that I'll have anything to contribute, but I'm very interested to see how this plays out.

What chapter tactics will he be using?

Chapter tactics will be "Run for the hills." At the beginning of T1 all your units may immediately flat out off the board to avoid certain defeat.

Time to muster the troops for the battle pre-amble. Don't know the exact mission yet but we have a game plan folks.

Belfrit with Agoniser, Blast Pistol, Soul Trap, and Shadow Field
+ 4 Grots on their Raider, with Dark Lance and Night Shields
What's your job? Go fast and deep at the devastators, then go for the pred formation. If we are still alive, Captain Merinque and rhinoes.

The Shrine of Resentful Spite (Incubi) on a Venom with Extra Splinter Cannon (*)
What's your job? Get Captain Meringue when he wades into the battle with the grots.

The Heirs of Loathing (Trueborn) w 4 x blasters, on a Venom with extra splinter cannon.
What's your job? Trueborn: Deepstrike and destroy the preds. Venom: help out any unit focusing on infantry.

The Pink Candy Pack: 10 Kabalites, one blaster, pink candy raider with dark lance, night shields, and splinter racks
Kabalites: Zoom in support of the grots and destroy foot troops. Raider gunner: 3s and 4s at tanks, sir!

The Blue Candy Pack: 10 Kabalites, one blaster, blue candy raider with dark lance, NO night shields, and splinter racks
What's your job? Kabalites: Zoom in support of the grots and destroy foot troops. Raider gunner: 3s and 4s at tanks, sir!

The Grens, Bluegrens, and Redgrens: 3 x 3 Reaver Jetbikes with 1 caltrops each
What's your job? Either grab objectives from reserve or zoom in support of grots. Stay away from flames. Got to have FnP up before charging in.

Heartrip Eyrie: 5 Scourges with 4 Haywire Blasters.
What's your job? Enter from reserve and shoot at tanks unless get first turn. In which case, still shooting at tanks. Preds first.

The Poison Spike: Ravager with 3 dark lances
What's your job? Preds, destroy the preds, then rhinoes.

That's a good plan. But why not increasing the survivability of the true born by putting them into a Raider with night shields?