1250 list against mechanized orks

I made two lists for 1250 points, I can't decide which list is better. I'm trying to build a list to use against orks. Which do you prefer?


HQ/Elites
Archon with blaster and webway portal, 5x Trueborn with 4 blasters, Raider with Dark Lance [285] pts

Troops
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with Splinter cannon [120] pts
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with Splinter cannon [120] pts
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with Splinter cannon [120] pts
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with Splinter cannon [120] pts
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with Splinter cannon [120] pts
5x Warriors, Venom with Splinter cannon                    [105] pts

Fast Attack
Beastmaster                                                            [10] pts

Heavy Support
Ravager with 3 Dark Lance                                         [125] pts
Ravager with 3 Dark Lance                                         [125] pts

HQ/Elites
Archon with blaster and webway portal, 5x Trueborn with 4 blasters, Raider
                                                                                      [280] pts
5x Trueborn with 4 blaster, Venom with Double Splinter cannon [180] pts

Troops
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with Splinter cannon            [120] pts
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with Splinter cannon            [120] pts
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with  Splinter cannon           [120] pts
5x Warriors with 1 blaster, Venom with  Splinter cannon           [120] pts


Fast Attack
Reavers                                                                             [58] pts

Heavy Support
Ravager with 3 Dark Lance                                                   [125] pts
Ravager with 3 Dark Lance                                                   [125] pts

it definitely depends on the list you are facing on whice list would be better. I am guessing a lot of orks in vehicles, if that is the case have you considered using the archon to unlock a unit (or 2) of medusae in venoms. drop them in near the ork open topped vehicle and get 2 flamer hits to take out the boys inside. I find my medusae are always valuable, for 50 pts, they never fail.

I would also drop a unit of kabalite warriors with blaster for at least 1 unit of scourge, haywire scourge take out vehicles with so well and its spot on 120 pts too so an easy switch.

In a 1250 pt list I like to run cheaper HQ's and no one does it better then DE. Take a 10pt lhamean in a venom and she can fulfill the role of your beastmaster (I'm assuming you put him in for objective grabbing?)

not sure on points but it would look something like this

HQ - lhamean in venom
2 medusae in venom

Troop - 5 warriors 1 blaster in venom
5 warriors 1 blaster in venom
5 warriors 1 blaster in venom

Elite - 5 trueborn, 4 blasters in venom

Fast - 5 scourge, 4 haywire

Heavy - Ravager 3 DL
Ravager 3 DL

I think that's 1100 so you would still have 150 to play with.
Obviously you play with what you want, but personally I think this way will be more fun and have more answers.
Hope that helps a little...

Personally I’m not a fan of single blasters in venoms, but it seems to be popular in the dark city, maybe I just do it wrong……….. I would love to know how to get it right though. Also I could never get the hang of blaster trueborn in venoms either……..

As you can probably guess, I would save the points on blasters and get some scourges with HWB or reavers with cluster caltraps….

In fact my 1250pt list would look something like:

CAD:

Lhamen in a venom (dual cannons)

Warriors in venom dual cannons (no blaster)

Warriors in venom dual cannons (no blaster)

Warriors in venom dual cannons (no blaster)

Warriors in venom dual cannons (no blaster)

Warriors in venom dual cannons (no blaster)

5 Scourges 4 HWB

5 Scourges 4 HWB

6 reavers 2 cluster caltraps

2 talos each with TL HWB

Which leaves you with just under 25pt to play with

Or using real space raiders detachment I would drop the talos and get an extra 6 reavers with 2 caltraps and an extra 5 man scourge with 4 HWB leaving you with over 30pts (or I suppose two single blasters in venoms, if you can get them to work………)

PS if you can get single blasters in venoms to work could you let me know how you do it.

I totally forgot about the medusae, I will consider using them since they do well against open topped vehicles. I decided to add a beastmaster because he has the beast special rule and can move 12 inches so he can capture objectives.

I wish I could have scourges, but I don't have any and cant afford them at the moment.

der-al, in your experience, have reavers done well? I have taken units of them before, but they always run off the board and do poorly close combat.

Single blasters in venoms do well if you make good use of our mobility, and spend the first and maybe second turns moving forward and getting close to the enemy vehicles to shoot them down. If you turtle up and try shoot them from far away you will lose.

der-al wrote:

PS if you can get single blasters in venoms to work could you let me know how you do it.  

A lot of players see them as an improvement to the splinter rifle against all targets, not just against tanks. Its common to see them simply fire at regular infantry with the other 4 Kabalites. It might seem wasteful against things like Guardsmen and Gaunts, but its superior against every other target.

The additional stats on the gun make it a threat to TEQ, and furthermore, the strength 8 makes it quite a threat to units like Obliterators, Paladins, MEQ with FnP etc.

Against MC, which the Kabalites love shooting, it beats their armour save. Riptides are a perfect example, and a perfect target. The rest of the unit doesn't waste their shots either - you might get lucky and make him fail a save with those rifles.

To be honest, I find myself playing regular Kabalites without blasters sometimes too. They're both ok options. The blaster isn't cheap, but makes them better at the job they're already doing most of the time.

@ Smutfiend, Reavers do okay, like every thing you have to pick your target to assult, they've not going to do a number on teir 1 assult units, they also die horribly against anything with ignore cover, but what doesn't in our codex?

I've found that to get the most out of them you really need to take 2 units of 6 with cluster caltraps, the gun upgrades just aren't worth it IMO as you'll be jinking every turn anyway. I generally use them to hassas back field objective campers, artilary units etc. but they can be quite good against tanks particulally against rear armour (I've even finished off a landraider with the HOW (I kept rolling 6's))

Getting them into position can be difficult, but I generally use two differing approaches.

Firstly just turbo boost up a flank first turn and hide behind some good LOS terrain.

if that's not an option try and camp mid feild again behind LOS terrain and next turn pounce on the right unit, this unit wants to be a unit you're not going to obliterate in one turn but is unlikely to pose a serious threat, kill a few with HOW.

Positioning again is key here, you need the cluster caltraps to be in base contact after the initial charge for HOW but you do not want them to be the closest incase overwatch is a problem). Then hit and run in your oppants phase to sling shot to the back field for the start of your turn. The problem with this is picking the right unit (assuming that there is even a suitable unit) 3 man bike squads, 5 man tac marines seam to work fine.      

With the blasters in venoms I'm guessing what works against me is the simple fact i rarely field more than 3 venoms, I know I'm weird.