Reavers, Talos, and Mandrakes, oh my!

+++ DE (1845pts) +++

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Realspaceraiders)

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon [4x Lhameans]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Elites +

Mandrakes [5x Mandrake]

Mandrakes [5x Mandrake]

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [2x Cluster caltrops, 4x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]

So, the idea is to have the scouting Talos provide a crunchy threat forward and the mandrakes run interference and tie up units so reavers can get close, blow vehicles, and bladevayne things. I don't really have any faith in ravagers right now. My list was inspired by Tabletop Tactic's latest tourny showing and my own love of the models.

You can only take 1 heat lance and 1 cluster caltrop per 3 reavers. So they'd have to be units of 6 to get 2 of each like you have.

Also, I object to heat lances on caltrop reavers. Their only defense with 5+ armour is to jink for a 3+ cover save, which makes their heat lance a waste of points.

There are six of them per group. Also, I think I can keep them out of sight so they can shoot, charge, and hit and run.

It'd be interesting to see how it does.

I generally don't expect much from armies that don't have obsec, unless they're just bringing overwhelming firepower, which I don't necessarily think this does. But I could be wrong. A lot of it probably depends on your meta.

Objective secured implies that I have units that will survive on an objective. Sadly, I don't have a whole lot of faith. My meta is full of space marines in drop pods and the likes, I need things that eliminate the enemy and can crack armor that isn't going to get bashed...

If you were going to adjust the list how would you do so? Cut the reaver units down and use another CAD with objective secure?

In staying with the theme of the list you already have? It takes a little bit of shuffling upgrades, dropping the mandrakes, and dropping 1 unit of reavers. That said, it makes 2 CADs that both have obsec, and gives you a warlord trait that you wouldn't otherwise have gotten. Here is how I'd do it:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CAD1
HQ
4 Lhamean in dual cannon venom 105
Troops
1x5 Kabalite Warriors in Dual Cannon Venoms 105
1x5 Kabalite Warriors w/Sybarite(Warlord) w/Haywire Grenade in Dual Cannon Venom 120
Fast Attack
3x6 Reaver Jetbikes w/2 Heat Lances & 2 Cluster Caltrops 438

CAD2
HQ
1 Lhamean in dual cannon venom 75
Troops
2x5 Kabalite Warriors in Dual Cannon Venoms 210
Fast Attack
1x6 Reaver Jetbikes w/2 Heat Lances & 2 Cluster Caltrops 146

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
5xTalos w/5 Ichor Injectors 650

TOTAL: 1849

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It basically stays with the same theme/plan you had, but adds obsec to your existing warriors, and adds 2 more warrior squads w/venoms, a sybarite warlord, and another lhamean in a venom in exchange for the lost blasters and reaver squad. That gives you a grand total of 8 obsec units if you split the troops from the transports.

It forces your opponents to weigh and consider shooting at less than optimal damage dealers in order to stop you from scoring points. That's part of the idea of having obsec. Either your opponent targets your cheap obsec(making your damage-dealers safer), or he doesn't, and you punish him for it by stealing objectives at every opportunity.

But that's just how I'd do it if I were sticking to your theme. To each their own.

All these CTC lists make me want more taloi (plural?) lol

let me know how this does, I love reavers. Very punishing when ignored by the opponent.

The changes that @BetrayTheWorld made are spot on. It optimises the list very well. Although I still like my kabalite venoms with Blasters, the ruthless efficiency of this list is not to be underestimated.

I run a very similar list myself

If he really wanted some blasters, he could drop 3 lhameans from the 1st squad and afford to buy 2, but I think those 3 lhameans might make a bigger difference in the game than the 2 blasters.

But it wouldn't be a bad choice either way. I've seen worse tradeoffs.

So I'd like to thank you for taking the time to look over the list and I appreciate you sticking with the same theme because as it stands I'm sort of just collecting for a cult army. I'm a little sad about the mandrakes being cut, but. That's fine.

I'm going to play test tomorrow and I'll do both versions and let you guys know.

Good luck!

Looks a lot like Lawrence's list to me. Does well in tournaments as far as I can see

So, I got in two games yesterday with it.

First game was against a space wolf thunder Calvary death star list supported by Wulfen, their weird flyer, and some bikes. There were some long fangs as well, but, I kind of forget about them because I wiped them out turn one in a volley of shooting from two Talos...

I was using my list, I won the roll, and we were just playing with 3 objectives in the middle with standard deployment. As it was a test for both lists, we didn't bother so much with scenario, so take that with a grain of salt. Board had a 3x3 grid feel to it with most cover completely blocking my reavers from line of sight, which was grand.

First turn I moved them as far up as I could and behind cover. I had my CTC middle field and hold up behind cover and I let fly. They took out a squad of long fangs and put a pretty good dent in the bikes, killed a single wolf, and called it a day after the mandrakes hid up in front of the CTC.

Opponent moved everything up, took some shots at the CTC and put a few wounds on, but mostly tried their best to get close. Reavers went unscathed and I had one venom get shaken I believe. My rebuttal was two heat lances per squad popping open his three transports and then charging the left-overs. I wasn't sure if I could Jink to over-watch but I was told I could so weathered the shooting very well and did a bang up job killing his tacticals that had poured out.

Next turn the flyer hit the field and took out a talos, thunder cavalary engaged the Talos, things got a little messy there with their claws. FNP saved my butt and I proceeded to die the one clump with CTC and the mandrakes who did well but ultimately were a speed bump.

My second turn dropped his hovering transport and I killed his wulfen but lost reavers in the process due to their weird "Attack after death" which made me cringe.

Opponent folded after the third turn after the combat with my CTC, leaving me with 2.5 Talos and his death star not chewing through as fast as he'd like.


I think it went well, but, without playing scenario I can't really make a honest assesment other than reavers work pretty well.


The next game I tried we upped the points and I played the second list with a flyer attachment versus White Scars and their murder bikes. CTC Did very well, but was engaged a little faster than I'd have liked. I positioned them poorly. Reavers met the bikes after my Lhameans went in and rolled 6's like a BOSS. Honestly, I was shocked at how well they did. I sort of want to get some Mudasae in there to support them, because, dang that would have been the best.

Game ended in three rounds with me left with my venoms that had scattered and disembarked the units on objects and fanned out to threat saturate, two units of reavers, and 2 lhamenas versus his one unit of bikes and a flyer. My Razorwing did well until I got shot down to a lucky string of bolter fire...did better than a ravager would have, honestly.

I REALLY like portions of the second list, but, the first list seemed like it had a touch more punch...thought I could be biased since the first list had some soft transports to pop.

Here is a sort of edit based on input and playtesting.

+++ DE (1842pts) +++

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon [Lhameans]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon [Lhameans]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors [4x Kabalite Warrior]
····Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [Blaster]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack +

Razorwing Jetfighter [2 Dark Lances, 4x Monoscythe Missile, Splinter Cannon]

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]

I don't like all the blasters on splinter squads...too inefficient. Look at it this way: For the price of 1 warrior squad with a blaster in a venom, you could just get a triple lance ravager, which would be 3 times as effective at the optimal targets of the blaster as the blaster unit would, while losing the splinter shots from the venom and being way tougher (AV11 w/3HP).

The price of those blasters push them just over the point of being worth it, and causes your splinter fire to be wasted any time you fire at a vehicle.

I just think the points can generally be put to better, more efficient use elsewhere, like doubling up on your heat lances per reaver squad, and swapping a warrior squad out for a ravager.

But maybe I'm wrong. To each his own, I suppose!

Hm...Well, the idea is to deposit the troops into cover and have them fire and the venoms to act independantly. I'm just trying to blend the two. I'm having troubles deciding on a direction with the list. Originally I was just going to have reavers and razorwings for my AT but then I have 4 units of troops in venoms....

I'm just not sure how I feel about dark lances in general right now. It feels like having ravagers and keeping them alive is dangerous, but, maybe I'm assuming the worst in that they will either jink and not hit anything next turn or just get flat out killed....

I love the CTC and the reavers, I'm having problems with the rest of the list.

Korazell wrote:

I love the CTC and the reavers

And rightfully so. I think this is a very solid combination of combat prowess, area denial, and relative durability. The Reavers double as objective takers with their insane speed.

Korazell wrote:

I'm having problems with the rest of the list.

If you're having problems about the remainder of the list itself, it's good to ask yourself what you're looking for from it, and how you want to focus it.

Is it to provide Objective Secured, and a measure of poison shooting?
- Drop the Blasters, and keep it as lean as possible. Keep the Razorwing as it supplements your poison fire to drown infantry in saves.

On the other hand (on the polar opposite of just wanting Obsec) is it just to meet the minimum requirements of the detachments because screw everything that isn't a Reaver?
- Drop the Blasters, drop a single Kabalite unit, and keep it as lean as possible. Consider dropping one entire CAD and go for RsR instead, with 6 units of Reavers. It might be worth dropping Heat Lances on some of these Reaver units if you decide to go this way.

Is it to provide some ranged anti tank?
- Use your remaining slot in Fast Attack to bring in some haywire Scourges. Consider dropping the Razorwing, as it sucks at anti tank, for a second unit of them.

Is it to simply win games?
Replace entire army list with CWE.

No, seriously, is it to simply win games and have some amount of fun?
Consider dropping some or all Heat Lances, dropping the Razorwing and taking a RsR instead of two CADs. Then add CWE allies, mix in a Farseer skyrunner, sprinkle in as many Scatterbikes as you deem appropriate ie as many as you own, before finally garnishing with a Wraithknight. Best served cold with a side helping of vengeance.

I think you're right, on most parts.

I think taking a RSR and CTC with some scat bikes and a knight may be the answer, even if I hate that I can't be semi-competitive and just run regular DE.

I have 15 scourges incoming, so, that is something I can take a look into...

I'm going to play around with your suggestions and see what I can come to terms with.

Thanks!

hydranixx wrote:

- Drop the Blasters, drop a single Kabalite unit, and keep it as lean as possible. Consider dropping one entire CAD and go for RsR instead, with 6 units of Reavers. It might be worth dropping Heat Lances on some of these Reaver units if you decide to go this way.

I would never suggest doing this one unless you 100% know you're playing a killpoints game. That's the only case where a lack of obsec won't hurt.

Speaking of which, if you do the eldar option, it sounds like eldar jetbikes are going to be your only obsec units. I'd encourage you to get at least 4 units of jetbikes, even if you can't make them all scatterbikes.

Having non-upgraded jetbikes often makes people not target them, which makes them excellent for grabbing objectives and winning games.

So, I'm just frustrated right at the moment.

If I add eldar as allies, I see no reason to run DE at all currently as I simply could just finish out a list with CWE and be better off for it. Their troops are Jet-bikes for Vect's sake. XD

If I was going to play DE, I'd stick with the CTC and MSU of reavers. The issue I have after that point is....I just don't have a great way to fill the rest of the points. Kabalites are...just alright. I don't think they'll survive being dropped off someplace, but, if you feel like Venoms with them inside is the answer, with no blaster, I trust you. I just want to explore other options to make sure there isn't anything we're missing.

Regarding the CTC, do you think the splinter cannons are better or even with the HL on 5 MSU of 3 reavers is enough? Should I use larger units of 6 with two AT options and just say screw it?

I appreciate the feedback, and I'm sorry I'm so fussy. I'm semi-competitive in the aspect I want to win with what I like and would rather not break that stride. If I like the models, I'll paint them better, play them better, enjoy the hobby better.

I understand your frustration. That's how I made the shift to mostly playing CWE. I added just a little CWE at first, then when 7th came out, added a little more, and as the meta has shifted and CWE got better while DE got worse, it became harder and harder to justify taking DE at all, until I was running pure CWE.

That said, there are basically 4 "reasons" one might want to use DE at this point:

1. Reaver Spam - They're really good units that can be very flexible, though they have 1 large built-in weakness to ignores cover/template weapons.
2. Coven Units - The only models that enjoy the benefits of a supplement, and the overall focus of our latest release, their rules aren't generally bad, though no obsec if you're using the supplement formations/detachments.
3. Webway Portal Shenanigans - Deep striking no-scatter D-scythes are still really, really good.
4. Leadership Shenanigans - We do have a few things that work well for negative leadership modifiers.

The second 2 of these pretty much require allies. The other 2 don't HAVE to take allies, but are probably stronger if they do. That's basically where you're at right now. I know, it sucks.

But then again, while your basic turn 1 warrior in the open is VERY easy to kill, dropping them off away from assault threats in the mid-late game on an objective, they can be decent at protecting it. If the objective allows them to be in cover, they can go to ground for a 3+ save with a 5+ FnP. For an 8 point model, that's pretty solid.

I'm thinking the exact same things you are at the moment Korazell, here is a list I was toying with for ITC rules / ITC missions:

CTC w/ 3 ichor injectors, 5 HL

CAD
HQ: llhamean / venom
T: 2 x 5 warriors in venoms (no blaster)
FA: 3 x 3 reavers w/ HL and CC

CAD #2 * (end points more flexible)
HQ: llhamean / venom
2 x 5 warriors in venoms (no blaster)
FA: 2 x 3 reavers w/ HL and CC
1 unit of Haywire Scourges*

Cronos w/ FNP bubble.*

The cronos is clearly there for t1 FNP protection. A poor mans DA. The alternative is ravagers, which would not be terrible. I don't know of other options within the DE.

I toyed around with a RSR version of the same thing, but for ITC I view ob sec as too important.

I considered a Chronos, but, that's only a 6 inch FNP bubble...not sure if I'd rather have a ravager or not...

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon [Lhameans, Medusae]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [5x Kabalite Warrior]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors [5x Kabalite Warrior]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Heat lance]

++ Dark Eldar: Supplement - Haemonculus Covens (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Formation: Corpsethief Claw
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]
····Talos [Ichor Injector, Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon]

++ Dark Eldar: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Court of the Archon [Lhameans, Medusae]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Troops +

Kabalite Warriors [5x Kabalite Warrior]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

Kabalite Warriors [5x Kabalite Warrior]
····Venom [Splinter Cannon]

+ Fast Attack +

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

Reavers [Cluster caltrops, 2x Reaver]
····Reaver with special weapon (up to 1 for 3 models)
········Reaver jetbike [Blaster]

+ Heavy Support +

Ravager [Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Dark Lance, Nightshield]

I like this latest list best out of them. If I were going to change something though, it would be to once again remove the blasters. If you dropped the blasters from the reavers, and dropped the night shield from the ravager, that would give you 60 points. For 50 points, you could put FIVE twin-linked haywire blasters on all of your Talos. That will make them basically kill a tank a turn on their own(3.7 hullpoints against all AVs).

Haywire on the Talos is nice because it's automatically twin-linked, longer ranged, and it's on a platform that's really difficult to kill, so you can depend on it to last longer than any given reaver, both against shooting and CC.

If I dripped the mudase I could get the 50 points and keep my reavers