Gunboats as cover

Now I have been pondering about the use of gunboats.
I am a fan of the idea, but the threat bubble is arguable.
However, I was reading my codex and I found this piece of text referring to venoms using them as cover, and that got me thinking.

Say with the new FAQ, you could in theory get the gunboats into strategic positions, and with nightshields make them some pretty decent cover for venoms with more valuable units.

And you could jink and then fire with embarked kabalites.

Yet maybe an ordinary raider would be more appropriate for this cause, since you wouldn't want to risk the embarked troops.

Now I am not an expert in tactics, so what are your opinions on this?

There's little point in using a Raider to give cover to a Venom as the cover save will be 5+ and Venoms already have a built-in 5++ invulnerable save from their Flickerfields.

But If you were jinking?

Dankus wrote:

But If you were jinking?

Makes no difference to the cover save that the Venoms get. The Raiders would have a 3+ cover save, not the Venoms.

As count has said.

However, you CAN use the transports as cover for your infantry models (at least the larger ones like Grots). Same thing though, with a 5+ cover save, and only if positioned correctly

Count Adhemar wrote:

There's little point in using a Raider to give cover to a Venom as the cover save will be 5+ and Venoms already have a built-in 5++ invulnerable save from their Flickerfields.

That's not right. Vehicle cover rules are very different than other models. If the gunboat is obscuring 25% of the side of the Venom being shot at, it's a 4++, and if you position it cleverly so that the side being shot at is completely obscured, it's a 3++. That's before night shields.

I won a game with one Raider and one Ravager left alive because they both had night shields. I kept moving them 12" near scatterfields with the front partially obscured so the opponent couldn't get a good shot on them to get around the 2++ cover save while I pelted them with dissie and DL fire.

tegs wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

There's little point in using a Raider to give cover to a Venom as the cover save will be 5+ and Venoms already have a built-in 5++ invulnerable save from their Flickerfields.

That's not right.  Vehicle cover rules are very different than other models.  If the gunboat is obscuring 25% of the side of the Venom being shot at, it's a 4++, and if you position it cleverly so that the side being shot at is completely obscured, it's a 3++.  That's before night shields.

The 'Vehicles and Cover – Obscured Targets' section of the rules says:

• If the target is obscured and suffers a glancing hit, a penetrating hit, or is otherwise hit by an enemy shooting attack that inflicts damage upon it (such as being hit by a weapon with the Graviton special rule), it must take a cover save against it, exactly like a non-vehicle model would do against a Wound (for example, a 5+ cover save for a Citadel Wood, a 4+ cover save for a ruin and so on). If the save is passed, the hit is discarded, no Hull Points are lost and no roll is made on the Vehicle Damage table. If a special rule or a piece of wargear makes a vehicle obscured even if in the open, this is a 5+ cover save, unless specified otherwise in the codex or Army List Entry.

You are correct about the +1 bonus if the shot comes from an arc that is completely obscured but that can be difficult to achieve.

Huh.  I've been doing that wrong, then.  Thank you for the correction.  What would a vehicle obscured by a LOS blocking terrain piece get, I wonder? Derp, the same section say it's a 5+.

You can get the +1 to cover with Raiders and Ravagers pretty easily.  Park them sideways with the nose further back than the side facing the shooter, with the side completely covered.  You can still fire the Raider's weapon and two of the Ravager's weapons at them, which isn't much of a loss if you moved 12" and would have to snap shot the third weapon anyway.

It doesn't work for Venoms because the weapons are hull-mounted.

I'd like to mention using Reavers in a similar role - minimum squads of 3 can fire off some rounds in shooting and then assault move in front of a Ravager or other vehicle. With Nightshields you've got a 4+ without jinking.

@tegs, keep in mind that our Dissies are "hull mounted", so they are restricted to their 45* firing arc (unless I am mistaken). So you cant fire them backwards (if I am understanding you correctly)

The FAQ syates that Venom's weapons are hull mounted. It doesn't make any such statement about Raiders or Ravagers.

It's pretty obvious that the side guns on the new Ravagers are sponsons, and the front gun is pintle mounted.

tegs wrote:

The FAQ syates that Venom's weapons are hull mounted.  It doesn't make any such statement about Raiders or Ravagers.

It's pretty obvious that the side guns on the new Ravagers are sponsons, and the front gun is pintle mounted.

Can`t resist but point out that the top gun on the venom is obviously pintle mounted too. (too bad the FAQ writers don`t agree!!! LOL.

But given that there is no FAQ on raiders and Ravagers. I fully plan to keep playing them as pintle mounted too!

But... they physically cannot move that much. They are basically restricted to that 45* arc.

But you guys play however you want. I will get a jump on this expected ruling so I dont get hit too hard when it actually drops

If you actually bothered to install front glass you'd see that a full 360* arc is totally possible /s.

Ah, I was wondering what my mistake was ;P