1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie

Dear Archons and Autarchs too,

I am looking towards a limited rules tournament. Short summary as follows:
one LOW or Gargantuan, one squad of FW models, maximum 10 windrider jetbikes(if WK is taken, counts as 10 windriders), max 3 D-cannons, max 12 warp spiders, max 18 scatter lasers.
GW Faq is in use
Death from Skies is not
Maximum two formations (decurion type formations counts as two)

5 games:
Primary scenario: Eternal war, Secondary Maelstorm, Tertiary: Kill points, line breaker, slay the warlord

I am thinking of using Corpse Thief Claw as formation as core and supplementing with eldar Cad. CAD being the main.

WK would be option but would limit my points on obsec and antitank.
Eldar core that I tought then would be 3xsl bikes and one warlock, hemlock and crimson hunter, either two d-cannon batteries or 3x spinners and then fill the rest according to points.

Do you have comments how to complement the CTC. The point of CTC is that with new codexes e.g. Gene stealers and updates to CMS I am expecting more melee type armies and CTC according to rules (no experience on them) should work well against them.

I really do hope to receive your comments as I am new to Deldar and have very limited experience on them.

With Best Regards,
WildCandy

How are you going to deal with SM Gladius/Grav spam? You can no longer "toe in cover" your taloi, so I think you will be in for some pain.

You will need some screen units for the CTC, so a squad of guardians would work fairly well. Would help you use up the Troop tax (since your scattbikes are restricted).

Thank you Fisheyes,

I appreciate your insightful comment. The toe in the cover gone per new FAQ does make them weak against Grav. I did not notice to input all the other boundaries which are against other armies e.g. 6 grav cannons (inlcuding heavy grav cannons) per army. This is still 30 shots per round of shooting at worst. Wraiths can have only one canoptek harvest and TAU cannot use riptide wing.

The list I was thinking had in ballpark:
CTC ~620-630 points - running with splinter cannons, few chain flails and ichor injector
Eldar CAD
Farseer, Autarch ~230pts farseer on bike
Fire dragons in WS 245pts
3x3 scatter bikes one with warlock 300points
Hemlock 185
Warp spiders with exarch
two 1 D-cannon batteries total 110points
Leaves few points to play around with...
Challenge is like you said shielding the CTC from grav. I think would need to scap some vehicles, go with 'all depo' attitude and drop autarch and just fill table with warm bodies?

Thinking about the problem you brought up the second option would be running Grotesqurie
Grotesquerie 480 points
2xAberration with scissor hand + 2 grots + raider
Haemy with scissorhands and wwp

Eldar Cad
Autarch with fusion gun and Farseer both on foot 188pts
Fire dragons x5 (haemy and Autach joins for WWP fun) 110pts
2x Dire avengers with WS (SL+SC) 380pts
Crimson hunter 140pts
Hemlock 185pts
Vauls Wrath D-cannon 55pts
WK with double D-cannons and Scatter laser 310pts

This has few more units from Eldar side with more resilence, Grots are not so weak against Grav (so against drop pod grav assault I could use them as meat wall), WK can herd enemies towards grots and also work as a CC / zoning unit.
Fire dragon+autarch+haemy can bomb maybe a IK down. Depending on the enemy Grots can also flatout first turn to be on enemies face, ignore and suffer, shoot and suffer from the Eldar fire.
Crimson hunter is bit for antitank/antiair but could be situationally swapped for e.g. Dark reapers or other units. Also swapping WK to 3x3 SL+warlock on bikes would be sound plan for obsec and s6 shooting.

Looking forward to more insightful comments.

Yours truly,
WildCandy

The thing about the Grotesquery is that it doesnt have the same damage output as the CTC. I ran the Grots yesterday, and fearless blobs with decent armor give them trouble. I would keep with the CTC TBH, and invest in some cheap screening units (guardians since you are running the CWE CAD, and with the Battlefocus they dont REALLY need a transport). Guardians would also allow you to bunch up some Scatt bikes into larger squads for better psyker support.

Thanks Fisheyes for your experienced feedback. I will meditate on this and draft a new list based on CTC and letting it shine. The comment on larger scatt bikes group is valid. I personally tend to run everything msu, but to get more out of them and from single farseer this is precise notion.

Could try something like this:

CAD:
HQ:
1x Farseer w/ Shard of Anaris(Warlord) 140
1x Farseer w/ Singing Spear 105
3x 3 Windrider Jetbikes 153
2x 5 Wraithguard w/ D-scythes 420
3x 3 Vaul's Wrath support Batteries with vibro cannons 270
1x Aegis Defense Line w/ Quad Gun 100

Corpsthief Claw:
5x Talos w/ Ichor Injectors 660

TOTAL: 1848

This list gives you a solid, almost impossible to outshoot gunline with the vibro cannons set up behind the aegis, holding your objectives in your deployment zone with your warlord manning the quad gun for your sole anti-air. Both farseers are placed in with different vibro cannon units, but close enough to combine later if needed, and both farseers take identical primaris powers: Psychic Shriek, Guide, and Prescience. You use guide/prescience on the vibro cannon units and basically guarantee each unit 3 S9 AP2 pinning hits per turn. This will be great against vehicles, and passable to help pin enemy infantry. Against infantry-heavy lists, the psychic shrieks are there as backup.

The wraithguard serve a dual role: Against deep strike lists, they're your counter assault units that hang back with your gunline to defend against a backdoor attack. Against deployed armies, you can footslog them up each flank to use as area denial while your corpsthief claw plows up the middle.

So we come to the corpsthief claw. This is your main exploratory unit. While the majority of your army hangs back, this unit pushes into enemy territory, engaging anything and everything that could threaten your gunline, or obsec bikes.

And finally, the windriders. These guys are meant to be used classically, keeping them out of sight and using them primarily to zoom around the board claiming objectives with objective secured, particularly if you're using rules that encourage last turn objective grabs.

Make sure you understand how artillery rules work, and that ALL models are considered T7 vs shooting while a member of an artillery unit with at least 1 gun, and you can highly abuse that to make those units behind the aegis almost invulnerable. They're great against grav spam too, since their "majority" armour save is 5, despite the guns out front that typically take your saves on the gunline having 3+ armour saves.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

Hi BetraytheWorld,

my sincerest thanks to well thought list. I can feel that you have put a lot of thought and your personal playing experience in it.

I am unable to do at least carbon copy of that list as I only have 1 Vauls Wrath with D-cannon, 1 with all weapon options and two with either vibro or sweavers. I am not financially able to get the missing artilleries with current investments to ctc and DE + Coven books. I like the idea thou! It's extremely good on using the artillery rules for some extra cheese. I've usually bought warlock and stuck a farseer into one to get majority no armour save to make them impervious against grav shooting. Also I lack aegis line from my collection.

I am going to have a practice game next week against Astra militarium. I planned to go full tilt for that to see how parts of the army work. Against the bikes I will chose D-cannon wk for this match to see can I hem the enemy towards my taloi. Also I like to see what is the reaction of to 5 mc's and 1 gc creeping towards the lines.

The list would be as follows:
HQ:
Farseer with spear 105pts
Farseer with spear 105pts

Troops 3x
Guardian defenders with sl and warlock 140pts
Guardian defenders with sl and warlock 140pts
rangers x5 60pts (not helping much in this match but against some scouting /infiltrating armies can help a bit)

Fast attack:
Warp spiders 4x+exarch 105pts (to be reserved)

Heavy support:
Dark reapers 2x+exarch all with starshots 114pts
Vauls wrath shadow weaver with warlock 65pts
Vauls wrath shadow weaver with warlock 65pts

LOW:
WK with one sl 310pts

Main treat:
CTC, 3 with chain flails and 2 with ichor injectors 640pts

The farseers will join into the vauls wrath batteries for t7 and 3+ armour. One to each. I am not worried of losing the shooting with these even if I would walk and run with these behind taloi.
Dark reapers try to crack artillery expecting wyverns or lascannon groups. Wk will try to take down main threat some LOW probably either ik or hellhammer or such. I am not 'happy' with this list, it lacks many things I am usually playing e.g. msu approach which is given with 900+points in big and nasty units. There's also extra fat like the rangers that I do not usually use ... ever.

For the actual tournament I could loan the aegis line. Maybe put dark reaper exarch to shoot the quad gun/or maybe even icarus (as he can shoot twice).

What I could change is two switch warp spiders and WK to d-scythes and guardians to sl bikes. This would generate much more long range shooting, which lacks in above list except in form of dark reapers and d-cannon. But only few shots. It is steering away from BetrayTheWorlds list but the goal for this game is to try to CTC and some aspect of the supporting CAD. To get somekind of feel for them. The my above list has big flaws e.g. in antiair. I usually run jetbikes so I kinda know what to expect from them, but this kind of footslogging list is new to me.

Btw. what do you think about rolling for divination and 4+ invu for CTC example?
Two of the warlocks will try to get shrouding from Telepathy and two will roll on battle. Farseers will get guide and prescience at least.

Please if you do have notions on the above list (keeping the CTC and WK) please comment. I will keep you posted how it goes and what changes follow after the test game.

Thanks for the support guys I really do appreciate it. I helps a lot to get constructive feedback and new ideas.

WildCandy

Warlocks can't take telepathy. They may only roll on sanctic daemonology or runes of battle.

I'm personally not a fan of static warlocks in stationary squads. They simply cost too much for what they can do there. I basically only suggest using warlocks in a council deathstar of some sort, or in units of windriders to augment them in some way(adding singing spear, shrouded, etc).

They COULD be worth it in large, expensive squads of artillery, like if you were taking a unit of 3 D-cannons or something in order to give them more surviveability with conceal, but otherwise I think they're a huge point sink that you could otherwise use to give your army more bulk.

If you're limited to your existing models for your list, it'd probably be helpful to know what models you have for eldar in order to give the best advice.

Thanks BetraytheWorld,

I will PM you the models what are in range of possibilites On Warlocks you are right, I have somehow mixed Spiritseer and his ability to roll on Telepathy to also cover Warlocks. Good point there.

WildCandy

Looking over your available Eldar models makes me curious to know what your available DE models are. If you're not married to the idea of the corpsethief claw, I might swap that out to give you more flexibility with your DE and focus your eldar more on what they're best at in your meta. You meta sort of neutered the best things about eldar, except psykers and wraithguard, so I'd focus on those.

I can update those.
But do notice that 18 scatterlasers weapons are ok. Only windriders and windrider warlocks are counted towards maximum 10 windriders. Seer council on bikes, autarch on vike and farseers on bikes are extempt from that limitation. This would allow to take e.g. 10 windriders with 10 scatters and two ws with scatters and war walker with scatters for example. if that is what you meant. sadly the wk+windriders combo is unavailable. Ill pm you the de units anycase. yet again thanks for your input and humble thanks.

Or did I understand your proposition of best things in meta differently? Warp spider spam is put of question even 12 warp spiders can do lot of heavy lifting.

Yeah, I was just referring to scatterbikes, as they're the cheapest, most maneuverable platform to take scatter lasers on.

But basically I was just saying to focus on all the things they're NOT limiting rather than trying to use the limited tools they're "allowing". There are a lot of other ways to utilize Eldar/DE together that don't rely on the things that they've chosen to limit, that in some cases might be better than trying to use limited scatterbikes and WKs.

But why are warlocks counted against the windrider count? Warlocks can't even get scatter lasers.

Anyhow, let me know when the list is updated with your DE models and I'll give it another look. I think you might be better off using a psychic deathstar + 2 WWP d-scythe wraith units supported by MSU obsec if you have the models for it.

The listing has been updated.

There are limitations to psychics that I did not mention as they are same to all. On hindsight I should have but you are giving more taught on the list that I presumed I would get I do apologize for 'holding back information' in that regard!
- Maximum 15+d6 warp charges per turn
- Following spells are disallowed (if you roll one need to reroll to until get other): Invisibility, Fortune, Veil of Time, Phase form, Electrodisplacement, Shifting Worldscape, Earthly anathema, worldwrithe, Warp Fate ja Soul Switch > makes psychic deathstars without 2+ save unreliable.
- If save 2+ is rerolled it only passes with 4+
- If 2+ or 3+ save is rerolled unit cannot use fnp or reanimation protocols
- FNP can only success with 4+, 5+ or 6+

General other:
- Maximum of 200 free points allowed (e.g. in gladius) rest have ot be paid normally
- maximum 3 monstrous creatures with 2+ armour save
- maximum 2 indepent characters with 2+ armour save
- maximum 3 indentical units or characters (excluding transports and troops)
- One relic/artifact per character
- maximum 6 grav cannons (including heavy grav cannons)
- maximum 3 squards of wulfens or TWC
- maximum 5 drop pods
- One fortification is allowed except: Void Shield generator, Imperial Strongpoint, Wall of Martyrs Imperial Defense Network, Void Relay Network, Escape Hatch or any fortification with Mighty bulwark rule

Xenos:
- No riptide wing
- Stormsurge is 3 monstrous creatures with 2+ save
- max 6 broadsides
- Tau cannot shoot more that 36 s7 shots per turn
- Tau maximum 12 target acquired rules used
- maximum 12 warp spiders
- maximum 18 scatter lasers or/and support weapons
- maximum 10 windrider jetbikes (warlocks count if in windrider squad)
- max 3 d-cannons
- WK is counted as 10 windrider bikes
- maximum 15 tomb blades
- maximum 1 canoptek harvest
- no retribution phalanx


Why I thought of using CTC is that WK usually plays as psychological deterrent in CWE army, substituing that with CTC and gaining 'almost' 2+ armour save at the same time and possibility to gain wps from melee. I am not married to the idea but it could work well against FMC with tl SC shooting (e.g. against tetrach).

Looking forward to your input.

I'm not sure I'd even bother playing in this format. There are so many restrictions that seem completely arbitrary, based solely on the TO's perception of what is OP.

A thought - wouldnt such a gunline be best supplemented by Razorwings or Voidravens? They really can do a biiig bang, especially when you are trying to draw enemy out to you.

Count is right too in his perception of the comp.

yeah, it limits others much more than other codexes. Cwe and Tau especially. Some walkers and mcs get stronger. hard to perceive all ripple effects. also makes it interesting...

Count Adhemar wrote:

I'm not sure I'd even bother playing in this format. There are so many restrictions that seem completely arbitrary, based solely on the TO's perception of what is OP.

I agree with this. It's quite clear that the TO has it out for Eldar. That said, if I was going to play in it, I could do a lot with 15+d6 warp charge per turn.

But anyhow, based on the models you have, you could do something like this:

Covenite Coterie Detachment:
2x 1 Haemonculi w/ WWP 210
2x 3 Grotesques w/Aberation & Scissorhand in a dissie raider with night shield 390

Eldar CAD:
1 Autarch w/ Shard of Anaris, Swooping Hawk Wings & Banshee Mask 130
2x 3 Windrider Jetbikes 102
2x 5 Wraithguard w/ D-scythes 420
1x 5 Warp Spiders 95
2x 1 Vaul's Wrath Battery w/Shadow Weaver 60
1x 4 Dark Reapers w/Starshot missiles & exarch 147
1 Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker w/ comms relay & 1 6" Barricade 85
1x Eldar Warp Hunter w/Crystal Targeting Matrix 210


Ok, so this is basically a beta strike list with an almost null deploy option. Everything in the list can start in reserve and either deep strike, or come on the board and immediately be in range to be fully effective on turn 2.

Basic idea is this: Dark Reapers go in the bunker. Barricade goes in front of bunker, giving your AV14 building a 4+ cover save from the front(towards your enemy), while allowing your entire squad of dark reapers clear vision to fire from. The comms relay is placed behind the bunker with the 2 shadow weavers close enough to use the comms relay, but far enough apart not to be able to be hit by the same blast marker. If your opponent doesn't have any barrage weapons or ways to get a clear shot at your batteries, you're done. That's all you have to start on the table. Deep strike/Reserve the rest.

If your opponent DOES have some indirect fire, I'd suggest putting the 2 grot raiders and the warp hunter on the table, particularly if you're going first. You may want to do this anyhow if you go first. Then just use them aggressively. The raiders can push 36" towards the enemy on turn 1, and even if they die and your grots morale breaks, they become fearless turn 2 and auto rally.

The warp hunter with a crystal targeting matrix is really a beautiful thing. It catches a lot of people by surprise, because you're able to move it 36" AND fire your Strength D template ONCE during the game. I like using it as an alpha strike to hit an important, well-fortified infantry position on turn 1 if I can. This guarantees you get to use it, but don't waste it on something it's not likely to kill, like a heavy vehicle or something. It still has the d3+1 Strength D barrage blasts from range. The zoom and template is really just good for surprise wiping out elite infantry and deathstars, since it's a Str D AP2 ignores cover template.

Now, all that said, the following units should all pretty reliably show up on turn 2 since you will arrive on 2+ and reroll failures:

5 Wraithguard w/ Autarch & Haemonculus
5 Wraithguard w/ Haemonculus
5 Warp Spiders
2x 3 Windrider Jetbikes

Use the surgical wraithguard to eliminate the biggest threats when they arrive, hitting multiple units if possible, and combo them with the warp spiders and warp hunter to kill both transports and troops in one go.

The autarch is set up to be a tactical breakoff character. Another surprise many people don't see coming is that swooping hawk wings allow a model to move 18"(!!!) in the movement phase. This means you can have the autarch on one half of the table grouped with his wraithguard, then suddenly choose to leave his unit, move 18" away and reliably assault a unit that was 25" away and never expected him to be in range, and since he has a banshee mask, they can't overwatch him. Very good for quickly tying up a unit, denying overwatch, or forcing a challenge with the shard of anaris.

You'll need to protect your windriders, as they're your only 2 obsec units. View them almost solely as objective grabbers.

It's a compact list. Not a lot of models. Everything is expensive, but it's all also very effective. You should be able to do enough damage to most lists so that they're never really able to recover momentum. And your TO banned most of the counters to this sort of list, so you shouldn't run into many problems.

You'll need to get your TO to OK using Urien as a regular haemonculus, and using Baharroth as an Autarch with swooping hawk wings, banshee mask and a shard of anaris.

Other than that, the only model you need to build to have all the models on this list is the bunker and barricade. Be prepared for people to whine about using the barricade to give your AV14 bunker a cover save, but that's how it works if you read all the rules. Just place the barricade as close as possible to the building, so that it covers the bottom 30% of the building or so.

Keep in mind that all your DE units have a 12" aura of -1 leadership, and make sure you have your opponent roll their morale rolls. They should end up making a lot of them, even in unusual phases like during overwatch, since your wraithguard will fire 5d3 strength D autohits at any unit silly enough to charge them.

Sorry I talk so much. Good luck!

Top notch stuff right there!

I will loan the basis of this but apply for the ctc core for tuesday. Extremely good summary of tactics. Actually I do have two autarchs one with the wings and one foot slogging. I have forgotten them from the list. The bunker barricade combo is golden especially with dark reapers, I can also add the quad cannon shoot 5 times and reroll 1's with ammo dump. Bane of any bike, skimmer or flyer! Also having the comma relay with autarch gives good reserve manipulations. I am very very thankful for giving me some mew approach to Eldar! This is a list I could see my self running in the tournament. Personally I love rthe way you layout tactics, writing bit longer and actually passing the idea onward to the reader is much more worth than writing single line and being misunderstood. With limited gaming experience (started year ago) giving basis for claim is also golden.

Ill send updates soon. Merry Christmas, jingle bells from Lapland!

Glad I could help!

Unfortunately, per stronghold assault: medium buildings are limited to 2 fortification upgrades, with the comms relay counting as 1, and 1-6 sections of barricade counting as 1(@10/section). So you wouldn't be able to add the quad and ammo dump.

Good luck, and let us know how it all goes!

You are right. Thanks for pointing that out. I was putting all kinds of bells and whistles on it.

The list I am going with tomorrow is:
CTC, 3 chains, 2 inchors 635pts

Eldar Cad
HQ
Autarch with mask, wings, Fusion gun and laser lance(cheapest better power weapon available) 110pts, joins swooping hawks
Elites:
WG+scythes and WS with sl, cannon, ghost walk and holo fields total 360pts
Troops:
2x3 SL bikes 162pts
1x2 sl + tl catapult 71pts
Fast attack:
Swooping hawks 5+exarch with hawk's talon 116pts (no scatter ds with autarch, can drop fusion gun, hw granade and 3xs5 shots to some tanks back plate)
Warp spiders 4 + exarch with TL spinner 110pts (general working horse)
Heavy support
2x1 Vauls with Shadow weaver 60pts
Dark reapers 2 + exarch with star shots 114pts (in to bunker)
Fortification:
Wall of martys imperial bunker 110pts including barricades, comms relay and void shield(25)!
To my understanding comms are battlement and barricades and void shield are upgrades so legit? Also I wanted to give some extra life for the bunker if in case I face lot of -reserve manipulation.

Hopes are to go first, get master of ambush (primary) or Conqueror of cities maybe from strategic if going second +seize from strategic genious. If going second I plan to hide the bunker the best of my skill at least against ig, as I am expecting s10 ap1 ignores cover shooting from lovely low.

I'll make a short written rep on how things fly!

What is this: "1x2 sl + tl catapult 71pts"?

I don't know man. Doesn't look like a list I'd run, but maybe it'll work out well for you! Looking forward to hearing how it goes! Good luck!

I know, this list lacks almost all aspects i am familiar with msu, strong psyker support, flyers, warp hunter. this is to try ctc (didn't have time to convert grots). Only familiar thing is the bikes which i wanted to keep for that reason.

Personnally looking towards ds focused double cad eldar and deldar for next test game. If unable to get this to work personally wise, I can revert warhost approach with aspect host and wk.

tl sc is twinlinked shuriken catapult.

More info on the game later

What is the unit though? I know tl catapult means twin-linked shuriken catapult, but this line gives us no idea what unit you're referring to. Is it supposed to be bikes? Because bikes only come in minimum units of 3, while it looks like a unit of 2:

1x2 sl + tl catapult 71pts

Oh, I see. It's a unit of 3 bikes with 2 scatter lasers and 1 catapult.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Anyhow, the primary reason I said I wouldn't run a list like this is that you have too many anvils and not enough hammers, in my opinion. The reason I suggested the fortification and single vaul's batteries in the suggested list was to give you a surviveable core of units to last long enough for your stuff to arrive from reserve on turn 2. Since you have the corpsethief claw, however, it's not nearly as necessary, bordering on a waste of points. Further, you abandoned the 3 webway portals, which were what gave you precision deep striking and made the investment in an autarch and comms relay worth it. You still have a few units that can deep strike, but other than the swooping hawks, you risk scatters and mishaps now. If not going with the webway portals, and going with the CTC, I'd have probably built the list completely differently, building around the CTC instead of building around deep striking. I'm generally a risk-averse list builder. I tend to build my lists with redundancy and reliability in mind so that I don't have to worry about a poor dice roll costing me the game. It's worked so far. I've never once blamed the dice for a loss.

So anyhow, like I said, this might work out well for you. Depends on what opponents you face, and how your scatter rolls go. Good luck!!

Hi I sent link of batrep (done in 15mins so crude). I will write more detailed turns and about the depo hopefully tonight.

WildCandy