1850pts tournament CTC with Eldar Allies, now featuring Grotesqurie

WildCandy wrote:

I am bit tempted to chicel the points from agonizer to get the war walker with EML's. Decisions, Decisions...

How many times did you use the singing spear on the farseer the last couple games? How about the scissorhand? How did they do?

Personally, I always try to put singing spears on any model that can carry them, but I typically use them a lot, and en masse. I don't know if they're that good when you only have 1.

Usually when running with warlock it is bit of an assurance against ccw units. Thou witchblade is almost as good. The group lacks other high str so it is kinda underused except infiltrating and drop pod ccw armies.

Yeah, that's sort of what I was thinking. As a CC weapon, a witchblade is identical, so you're only giving up the ranged option, which if you're hanging back most of the time, is probably underused anyhow.

How about the scissorhand on the Haemonculus?

against twc captain it did nothing, in nurgle game enwmy didn't have units left for ccw.

To be exact, i challenged the lone lord with haemy, hoping to hit before him and to take him out before challenge. Autarch missed and failed to wound. Haemy with lower ws against the twc in formation ws6 failed to hit mostly and wounded once but rerolling fnp saved the lord from the wound. The haemys scissor is not really frightening against dedicated ccw units. Normal units can be taken down with normal attacks and attacks from wscythes. At least in principle.

In that case, I'd probably keep the agonizer and just drop the spear and scissorhand.

I assume the single barricade you put in front of your bunker is part of the reason your opponents don't bother shooting at it too much, since a 4+ save makes it too much of an investment to try to take out?

yes against sw with ik Nor did the nurgle really have suitable arsenals for that. Might be different for Tau and other Eldar and admech...

In any event, it sounds like the singing spear and scissorhand are probably your best options to free up points.

So under the redone list and some considerations after the points reallocations. Many thanks again for the new pointers and considerations BetrayTheWorld. You really help me to steer perceptions of different options and not to cling too much on one or another thing.

Eldar Combined Arms Detachment (1344pts)
HQ (215pts)
Autarch (100pts) with Banshee Mask, Eldar Jetbike, Laser Lance, Shuriken Pistol

Farseer (115pts) with Eldar Jetbike, Witchblade

Elites (210pts)
Wraithguard x5 (210pts) with D-scythes

Troops (213pts)
Windriders (81pts) 3x Windrider w/ Scatter Laser

Windriders (81pts) 3x Windrider w/ Scatter Laser

Windriders (51pts) 3x w/ Twin-linked Shuriken Catapult

Fast Attack (345pts)
Hemlock Wraithfighter (185pts)

Hornet x2 (160pts) with 2x Pulse Laser

Heavy Support (276pts)
Dark Reapers x2 + Dark Reaper Exarch with EML (126pts) and star shot missiles

Vaul's Wrath Support Battery (60pts) Shadow Weaver, 2x Support Weapon [Had to combine two units into one to fit war walker]

War Walker 90pts with 2x Eldar Missile Launcher

Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker (85pts) Barricades, Comms Relay

Formation: Grotesquerie (505pts)
Grotesquesx2 + Aberration with Agoniser
Raider with Disintegrator
Grotesquesx2 + Aberration with Agoniser
Raider with Disintegrator

Haemonculus, Close combat weapon, Scissorhand, Splinter Pistol, Webway portal (Scissorhands still here 10pts that could be reallocated)

Considerations, after removing - Singing spear from Farseer, scissorhands from haemy, Warlock with singing spear and two scatter laser jetbikes swapped to TL-shuriken catapult versions the total freed points was actually 100, in which point I noticed that I have given 11 points headaway to my opponents due calculation error in bscribe (taxing me 3times starshot missiles even when the exarch has EML. Good practice that

So to spent those I could keep the scissorhands or share the good between haemy and farseer - giving farseer the spear and haemy ?infamous? 2+ poison pistol! Or upgrade one of the bikes from 3 tl shuriken catapult group to e.g. shuriken cannon or SL. Knowing me I would then hesitate to use it as sacrificial lamb.

Other notice is that now I do not have a 'natural' place for the farseer, I could join it with the sacrificial unit, but it will need to leave it some point of time or join it up with DS WG scythes, making the scythe unit extremely interesting unit to focus on for the enemy.

I agree that the agonizer is good but I am still on the fence do I need two. The reason is that I do not see many of the enemies considering the agonizer as a huge threat giving me of course my moneys worth when they get to CC. So one option would still be to consider what could be got with 135pts that could trump both aberration with aggie and war walker with EML's. As you can notice I tend to still lean towards shooting due personal preference. Lack of experience/character there.

In this list it has long range S6 shots 26 per turn 36-48" (including support batteries), S8 ap3/ap2 14 per turn 48", which is a more low ap S8 shooting and less S6 that I am used to. What I like in this list is Skyfire options against flyers and FMC's which tend to be hard to get to. Also the EML's double down as small blasts against Deep striking units e.g. demons.

Btw. if stars align one iteration of the list we have discussed before might make to list review at Preferred Enemies podcast. *fingers crossed*

I believe the list is getting close to the final one This has been great learning experience and play experience to iterate the list!

Glad to help!

I think the war walker with 2 EML's is a good insurance policy against things like a flying daemon list while still being more useful against lists that have no flyers than something like a quad gun.

I don't think I'd swap those out. I'd probably just use the extra 11 points for a singing spear and stinger pistol or something. I can't think of anything else that gives you the utility of the war walker while maintaining the anti-air that you wanted to begin with, without digging further into your other upgrades, which are already pretty tight.

At most, I might consider giving up an aberration + aggie to upgrade your windwalkers with scatter lasers, your haemie with scissorhand, and your farseer with singing spear, but I wouldn't get rid of the war walker that was JUST put in to fill a role you needed filled.

I agree, especially with the latter comment!

I was also considering the role of the farseer, the utility I want from it is guide+shriek. I can live without guide, I can live without shriek. The thing in my narrow experience is that when I am backrow guiding I have the same problem as with singing spear the shriek is under utilized.
I was considering option to swap farseer to spiritseer and attaching that to wg scythe group. He might roll horrify or protect/jinx or worst case conceal/reveal with shriek. Spirit seer has better chances of leveraging hemlock and other way around. He Would be where the action is and would help the group in an event it would be assaulted giving wg reroll 1 to hit. I haven't tested but this might allow 5 scythes to shoot even without autarch attached to the group.
This would release 45 points. I could then keep the eml war walker, upgrade scatter lasers to bikes and keep abbie with aggie if I counted right.
This would increase firepower of the list substancially. Othr good place could be increasing number of dark reapers for maximum s5 ap3 marine and bikes killing power.

What a great idea. I've been planning on attaching a Farseer to a group of Grotesques so he can Shriek using Ld debuffs, and hit things with Guide/Fortune on the way there (or Doom if he gets it).

A Spiritseer could do the same thing, but provide a cover save instead of the Guiding/Dooming for 45pts less...

Found Money? As is said on the Splintermind podcast...

Next iteration and thank you for the feedback! Comments in "[]" brackets.

Eldar CAD + Deldar Grotesqurie (1847pts)
Eldar CAD (1352pts)

HQ (170pts)
Autarch (100pts) w/ Banshee Mask, Eldar Jetbike, Laser Lance, Shuriken Pistol

Spiritseer (70pts) [Farseer on bike downgraded to spiritseer]

Elites (210pts)
Wraithguard x5 (210pts) w/ D-scythes

Troops (233pts)
Windriders x3 (81pts) w/ Scatter Lasers

Windriders x3 (81pts) w/ Scatter Lasers

Windriders x3 (71pts) one w/ TL Shuriken Catapult and 2x Scatter Laser [added two scatter lasers]

Fast Attack (345pts)
Hemlock Wraithfighter (185pts)

Hornet Squadron (160pts) 2x hornets with pulse lasers

Heavy Support (309pts)
Dark Reapers (159pts) 3x Dark Reaper, Starshot Missiles + Dark Reaper Exarch w/ Eldar Missile Launcher [one extra dark reaper with starshot added]

Vaul's Wrath Support Battery (60pts) Shadow Weaver, 2x Support Weapon

War Walkers (90pts) with 2x Eldar Missile Launcher

Fortification (85pts)
Wall of Martyrs Imperial Bunker (85pts) with Barricades, Comms Relay

Dark Eldar Covens Formation: Grotesquerie (495pts) [Both with Abbie and Aggie]
Grotesques x2 + Aberration w/ Agoniser
Raider with Disintegrator
Grotesques x2 + Aberration w/ Agoniser
Raider with Disintegrator

Haemonculus [Lost scissor hand] - expendable in challenges
2x Close combat weapon, Splinter Pistol, Webway portal

Long range shooting:
S6 shots: 32SL + 2xShadow weaver
S8 shots: 15 in total divided to 3 units, 8 shots ap2 and 7 ap3 (or)
S5 shots: 9 ignore jink ap3 shots, (won't calculate raiders here )
Two units that can shriek and debuff/buff through Runes of battle
Low WC count of base 4
Warlord Autarch
Usual warlord trait table strategic hoping for conqueror of cities and at times Strategic genious or all others except Princeps of deceit are useful.

Autarch can join either WG scythes or group of windriders depending on the threat level.
Focus on beta strike and grinding the enemy down.
One group of the grots aim to flatout near where the WG scythes and haemie deep strikes allowing haemy to join that group of grotesques or for the grots to try to bail out the WG scythes and to to give them IWND and Zealot early (if they live to turn 3/4), and if sensible also the spiritseer. Autarch aims to lock down ranged unit through assault.

My gut feeling is that this list is bit stronger than the previous list even losing the guide and presience. This has multiple strong and annoying threat's, which will be hard to ignore. Lot of mobility.

Please critize! I feel overconfident with this list I'd say. Where will this fall?

Thanks in advance! And for those who have read these postings thanks to you as well!

I think it looks pretty good. Keep in mind that the witch staff of the spiritseer is slightly different from a witchblade in that it has soulfire. I tend to forget soulfire a lot.

I am very curious to know how this would do against a deep strike heavy list, such as a skyhammer annihilation force or something. I think that might be this list's weakness. But with forethought in deployment, I think it could still win.

The comp rules only allow 5 pods, of which maybe ?4? fit into skyhammer? Other is deep strike after that but that allows reserve rolls and deep strike scatter to diminish results abit. Next test game is 1.2. I think I will test this list.

Would force to hope for -reserve and deploying lightly with grots and maybe castling behind bunker as good los blocking place as possible. I can see it as the problem as well as most are glass hammers and the unit sizes are small.

Skyhammer is 2 drop pods. Could use 2 skyhammers unless comp rules forbid identical formations. This is assuming you could fit the points in. Probably not, but I don't feel like doing the math at the moment. I don't remember how much a full skyhammer costs.

Can be identical, but if it does not fit into detachment of formations / decurion style rhe two skyhammers will be thw army as only two formations are allowed.

Skyhammer seems to be about 400-420 pts, But taking larger groups with upgrades 600+pts. So large chunk but can do lot of damage too.

More than my special Dscythe snowflake with 3 IC's

Ok, so I took a little time and did the math. It's a fair bit higher than that with upgrades. 2 Skyhammers can be a valid entire army list at the right points value:

Skyhammer Annihilation Force 1:
2x 10 Devastators with 4 grav cannons + grav amp 560
2x Drop Pod 70
2x 5 Assault Marines w/ jump packs, 2 flamers, 1 eviscerator, and a veteran Sarge w/power fist 310
Skyhammer Annihilation Force 2:
2x 10 Devastators with 4 grav cannons + grav amp 560
2x Drop Pod 70
1x 5 Assault Marines w/ jump packs, 2 flamers, 1 eviscerator, and a veteran Sarge w/power fist 155
1x 5 Assault Marines w/ jump packs, 1 flamer, and a veteran Sarge w/eviscerator 125
TOTAL: 1850

Then they'd just combat squad all the devastator squads into groups, likely that have 2 grav cannons each, although they COULD put 4 grav cannons in single squads and leave units of 5 with just bolters in order to specialize them. It would depend on whether your opponent had lots of low AV vehicles and light infantry or fewer, but higher AV vehicles and elite infantry. Either way, this is something that they could choose each game, so it provides flexibility for such a list.

They could even take some lascannons or something instead of grav cannons, and have points for more assault marines if they wanted to.

It doesn't seem like much when you look at the list, but it's 60 space marines broken down into 12 deep striking units of 5 with some pretty amazing special abilities on arrival. Combined with ultramarines combat doctrines, it can be pretty devastating. I haven't seen anyone run 2, personally, but it's something I considered doing at one point, and it's not uncommon to see 1, so it's not unreasonable to consider as something you might run into.

That is pure horrid, auto come on turn 1 and the extra rules... that takes some consideration how to deploy and live to turn 2. Wow.

That is one solid list... Thanks for taking the time!

No problem! When is your next practice game?

Next weeks wednesday. So time to contemplate on the actics. Its against experienced tournament player, prolly admech. war convo...

I haven't had a lot of experience against admech players, unfortunately, so I wouldn't be able to offer any real insight there.

I am expecting cawl... the new black