Wraithknight selection

So with new income pouring in, my Ynnari warband is looking to add a new Wraithknight.

So here's the question, given that I normally will be running a Ynnari Reborn Warhost:

Normal Wraithknight in the Reborn LOW slot, or allied CWE CAD with a Skathach Wraithknight?

Edit: Let's also assume I'm only fielding it in competitive ITC settings.

Normal WK. The Skathach is snake oil peddled by imbeciles.

You think 2 SD AP 1 shots are superior to 2d3+4 S8 AP2 shots?

I'm afraid I don't follow. Could you enlighten me?

Nah. Sword and board! biggest flaw is that it can't cross the table, Now it can.

How do you figure the sword is the best option?

Sword is the best option in ITC format or in an assault list. 2 D-Cannons is better in a standard Ynnari list when you want multiple shooting phases with the WK. The 2D3+4 S8 AP2 shots are hogwash.

Can you explain what you mean? I'm not following the reasoning for your conclusions.

For reasons known only to the residents of whatever insane asylum the ITC draws its rulings from, the Sword and Board still gets access to the full D-table in close combat in ITC tournament play, so you can six someone out. Also that 5++ is nice. Otherwise, the 2 D-cannons are better because outside of ITC play they get full access to the D-table and can six someone out, but from across the board. And if a unit dies next to it or it kills something close by, it gets 2 more shots. So if you're smart and push your knight forward early on and get into combat with little bitty things, you can shoot, charge, stomp something out, then shoot again. Alternatively you can shoot, kill something, then shoot again. The Skathach is just "I'MA GONNA SHOOT YOU WITH THIS BIG GUN.

OH, YA JINKED?

OK I'M DONE."

Pathetic.

I'll only be fielding it in competitive games under an ITC format.

Then you have your answer. Also why do you hate yourself enough to only run it in ITC? It's so much better in not-ITC.

Because any competitive event I have access to will be ITC or use their FAQ. And running it in a casual game seems kind of beardy.

Do you run Eldar at all outside of tournaments?

Rarely. When I do it's usually in a non-competitive form. (No Scatterbikes, f'rex.)

Here was my thinking on the issue:

Thought 1: Given that the Wraithknight can never charge more than one unit, the number of things it can destroy in CC are extremely limited. A melee Wraithknight is less powerful than a ranged one.

Thought 2: Given the nerfed ranged D table in ITC, the Inferno Lance is a superior loadout to the Heavy Wraithcannon one. (Maybe the Deathshroud Cannon even is, too.)

Thought 3: The Skathach knight can't be taken in a Ynnari detachment, so it can't ever get SfD. This might give the 'nilla Knight the edge.

And thus my conundrum.

There seemed like two ways to go about it to me.

Skathach Knight: Deep Strike or Turboboost heavy list. The rest of the army gets up in the enemy's face, allowing the Skathach to pummel enemy vehicles or TEQ units, which then benefits the cluster of Ynnari who get to dig on some SFD and kill the inhabitants of said vehicles or more opportunistic infantry targets.

Nilla Knight: Stands in the backfield surrounded by a buzzing hive of Scatterbikes. Shooting at the Knight allows the bikes to fire unmolested at the enemy. Shooting at the bikes potentially gives the Knight more shots.

Have I made a mistake in your estimation(s)? Any thoughts on an alternative method of using them?

By my estimations you are using your gargantuan creature wrong. The purpose of the Wraithknight is to spook people, not actually do anything. My Wraithknight rarely ever gets into combat. What it does do is soak ludicrous amounts of firepower that would otherwise be going into other more useful units. I've had a sword and board WK survive an entire Tau shooting phase with increased ballistic skill and with them doubling the shooting of their 4-deep Riptide wing. It just chased the Tau player around while absorbing shots, letting my scatbikes and spiders whittle him down to nothing. This is the best use of the WK IMO. And if the Sword & Board does get into combat with something, say a death star, it's going to pose a serious threat and will lock it down for at least a couple turns, allowing your mobile units to goof around on objectives or pick off tertiary units.

Hmm. I hadn't considered using it in the same role as Grotesques, but I guess that could work.

Since I tend to run Freakshows, I was assuming its job was going to be primarily one of vehicle destruction. If I'm paying ~300 pts for something, I'm leery about it not doing anything but being (hopefully) scary enough to draw enemy fire.

Is your only issue with the Skathach the possibility of people Jinking against the weapon fire? That doesn't seem like it would be terribly effective against the Inferno Lance. (Barring maybe Dark Angels?)

I mean you can bring it, it will still do things, but I don't think the things that it does are any better than the things a 295pt bone stock sword and board can do.

Well, Nilla Knight with a Glaive kills maybe one thing per turn, or two per game turn. (Theoretically it COULD kill something with a Scatter Laser and use the SFD to charge a different thing, but that seems like it would be a very specific scenario that a savvy opponent could avoid with ease.)

A Skathach can kill 2 per player turn, theoretically, with none in the opposing turn being likely.

A Nilla Knight with a ranged loadout can, if you pick targets they can drop with a single shot from the Hvy Wraithcannons, kill up to 4 in your turn and two more in the enemy turn.

Do you think the Heavy Wraithcannons are superior to the Inferno Lances? If so, how so?

I mean outside of tournaments it is. Inside they're about even. But like I said I don't use my WK for killing things I use it as a distraction so what I'm looking for and what you're apparently looking for are entirely different.

I already mentioned that I was only really interested in competitive use in ITC settings.

Within that framework, if you've got any advice I'm all ears.

Saskatch with one deathshroud and shield can do about as much as a wk with sword and board but still work as a melee threat, gains 5++ invu and can affect the board almost where he is. If he is used for harrasment you can do quite a bit of work with the gigantic 41cm long template ignoring cover and with luck also glancing support vehicles.

The inferno lances are the go to option in ITC (and outside it IMO)

The sword and board could do work in a ynnari host though as stomps happen at a different initiative step... Charge, HoW plus swing and kill a unit, soul burst, stomp

Hey Jimsolo- This was the article that I was referencing during the hobby hangout Sunday before my call got dropped: http://variancehammer.com/2015/11/21/breaking-down-the-new-wraithknights/

The analysis gets thrown off however if you factor in the Ynnari Wraithknight getting to shoot twice in the event of a Soulburst action. The Inferno Lance option is more reliable and predictable all around, but the chance for big-D shenanigans is certainly tempting even in an ITC-nerfed situation.

And in response we have

http://variancehammer.com/2017/03/10/ynnari-wraithknights-conventional-or-skathach/

Short answer: use the D cannons

Possibly contradicting myself here;

My son took the Sword & Board wraithknight in a Ynnari contingent to a tournament last weekend and reports that it managed to pull off a turn 1 charge in every game and from turn 2 onwards was regularly wrecking more than one unit per turn with Soulburst. He says the Word of the Phoenix was what unlocked all this carnage.

You need to tailor your Knight to your list, not the other way around.
You have a general idea of what you are bringing, and the cost of the Knight.
If your list is lacking in str D, go with Yannari double cannon.
If you have that covered, but are lacking in anti tank, go for the melta knight.
If you need help with crowd control or anti troop, or are facing a lot of yannari, orks or War con, go with the shroud knight.
If you need a distraction, and a "You better deal with this before it deals with you" threat, Yannari sword and board all the way.

Pretty much, use the knight to flesh out the shortcommings in your list.