8e - Battle-forged Detachments

Creeping Darkness wrote:

Interesting. The battalion detachment looks pretty close to a current CAD, and comes with three command points. So my usual single-CAD style army will probably have about that many comman points to spend. I hope that not all the good stuff is restricted to command points!

I wonder if you will be required to complete a detachment before picking a second? If not I could see throwing a whole pile of small, minimal detachments together to try and squeeze more command points. But even if so, rather than filling a single medium detachment and supplementing an extra small one, you may be better off minimally filling a big one for the extra points...

I'm keen to see the full rules for army building.

To me this looks like 1k, 2k 3k point game detachments (not sainy gyou cant play more or less with each one, but what they were going for). Not saying we wont be able to pick more than 1, but I dont see that happening.

I could see tho you can have 1 BRB FoC and 1 Army/Faction FoC tho.

TeenageAngst wrote:

I love how the objective is to try and nullify any possible advantage for bringing units from another faction that are powerful. For instance I can't bring Eldar with a Riptide Wing anymore, I have to bring Eldar and Tau detachments, and the lack of command points or w/e would nullify any possible advantage gained. Let's follow this logic a moment. If the goal is to stop people from bringing multiple factions to capitalize on powerful units, why allow people to bring multiple factions at all? Why not just force them to pick an army? Clearly they want allies to be allowed though, so why penalize it? Why should the person with one large force inherently benefit more from their strategy than someone with lots of smaller forces? If the points values were properly balanced, why penalize people for jumping across lines? Unless they're not, in which case you're only buffing the factions that have an incredibly strong core ruleset and penalizing armies that need allies to be viable.

Any way you look at it you lose.

I think you have this arse about.

Right now, you have no penalty for running Eldar Tau at all - nothing but benefits. Under the new system you are not penalised for running Eldar Tau - but you are incentivised to run more thematic lists via more pure forces.

GW has spent 2 editions trying to get allies working and its never quite meshed. This version allows peoples existing armies to continue to work while incentivising people to fun more 'pure' lists. Assuming that's how it works - we don't know yet.

Its not a penalty to run allied lists in anyway - which is like it is now.

They say there will be dozens of detachments. Now they have shown a few generic ones. Others might be more specialized towards a specific slot like heavy (gw hinted at this on facebook), fast, elites or flyers. These will probably allow you to take more of a slot in a smaller list, negating the need for a formation. We might loose the special rules, and I will miss the dark artisan formation, but if it means that I won't meet unfair advantage formations like skyhammer anihilation force anymore (not to mention the crap necrons can pull off), then it is worth it, in my opinion.

They cancel formations, but all previous books still have them...

Para-para-pam, GW!

Devilogical wrote:

They cancel formations, but all previous books still have them...

Para-para-pam, GW!

Whats your point?

I'm miffed by detachments no longer giving us benefits. If command points and "strategems" turn this into a build your own detachment bonus we're going to be right back where we were with formations. Some armies will benefit from some combos massively while others hardly at all.

Imateria wrote:

Whats your point?

I mean that GW could do thigs smooth and gentle, to jump from 7 to 8 ed. All lates books, including `Fracture` was based on formations. Formations was everywhere (but not in DE codex ) and now they simply shut it down. I`m not a big fan of this, yet still...

Who`s gonna buy units for this formations like Ghostkill or Triumvirate?..
Wait a second... i`ve already did...

Now it`s just like: Why? Why don`t make some changes for new edition while you preparing those `Gathering storm` thing? And it`s not just formations. A lot of things could be done in this `midrange` time. `Storm` could have been border from one edition to another. In my wet dreams, probably.
Just remember how it was when Daemons 4th edition was released. And how they are dealing with this now... Just sad.

Devilogical wrote:

They cancel formations, but all previous books still have them...

Para-para-pam, GW!

You must have missed the news where 8th edition isn't compatible with old codices, so old codices(including their formations) are no longer valid once 8th edition comes out.

TeenageAngst wrote:

I'm miffed by detachments no longer giving us benefits. If command points and "strategems" turn this into a build your own detachment bonus we're going to be right back where we were with formations. Some armies will benefit from some combos massively while others hardly at all.

1st, I'm pretty sure there are going to be detachments with benefits, as I said yesterday. Today, they released more info on detachments basically confirming what I guessed yesterday, that various detachments will have different benefits, and that as further game supplements are released factions will get more access to faction-specific detachments.

This isn't really an eliminating of the concept of formations. It's just a renaming of formations into detachments to eliminate confusion that previously existed(for some reason, people never could "get it".)

It also seems like they're still going to try to make the game modular, allowing you to sort of build your own detachment bonuses, which I agree creates powerful combos. But so long as they make the number of combinations sufficiently large enough, I don't think that is a problem. There should be lots of "powerful" combinations.

Well yeah I mean in the long term none of this *really* matters since there's gonna be powerhouse lists and fluffy lists, just perhaps not as much disparity as we see now. I hope science really has given GW the ability to span enormous gulfs like what exists between fluffy and competitive lists, because that means there's hope for the space between where the fluff was and where it is now. Anything is possible.

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

You must have missed the news where 8th edition isn't compatible with old codices, so old codices(including their formations) are no longer valid once 8th edition comes out

I know that. This is not what i`m talkink about.
My point - if they are preparing new edition where nothing previous would work, they should have been optimised game mechanics as well as posssible. And not only the rules. For example - they could release `Storm` after new edition. Nothing in those books valid now and they don`t have any meaning.

There also rumors about returning on Cadia in this edition. I suppose Biel-Tan wasn`t blown up either. Whole thing seems to be wasted.

I seriously hope they retcon the entire event and all of this gets Squatted.

TeenageAngst wrote:

I seriously hope they retcon the entire event and all of this gets Squatted.

Why???

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

1st, I'm pretty sure there are going to be detachments with benefits,

I'm not so certain. I may need to see more, but I think the Command Points are the benefit now, and thats that. I have a feeling the army specific rules will be different things to do with those points rather than specific Detachment rules.

That would keep things simpler (which seems to be the goal).

Devilogical wrote:

There also rumors about returning on Cadia in this edition. I suppose Biel-Tan wasn`t blown up either. Whole thing seems to be wasted.

Biel-Tan is just a fleet now, and Cadia is a borken, floating rock that everyone is STILL fighting over.

People are fighting in the cadia system/region, the planet is no longer the issue. Some chaos have jumped to other warp rifts and imperial reinforcements are cut off. I expect roboute to do something like clear the warp storms to allow troops back in to counter the crusade.

Devilogical wrote:

BetrayTheWorld wrote:

You must have missed the news where 8th edition isn't compatible with old codices, so old codices(including their formations) are no longer valid once 8th edition comes out

I know that. This is not what i`m talkink about.
My point - if they are preparing new edition where nothing previous would work, they should have been optimised game mechanics as well as posssible. And not only the rules. For example - they could release `Storm` after new edition. Nothing in those books valid now and they don`t have any meaning.

There also rumors about returning on Cadia in this edition. I suppose Biel-Tan wasn`t blown up either. Whole thing seems to be wasted.

The Gathering Storm books were 90% fluff. I bought the Fracture of Biel-Tan fully aware that 8th was on it's way and likely to come out at some point this year, I don't remotely regret that because I still have a large fluff book and 3 models that will still be usable in 8th.