8e - Vehicles

Yes! The overwatch-soaking Raider is ON!

I wonder what exactly the shock prow will do.

Our vehicles will be gods of CC who needs troops when we have vehicles!!! Screw wyches and incubi my cc will be done souly with venoms raiders and the odd ravager!

Archon_91 wrote:

Our vehicles will be gods of CC who needs troops when we have vehicles!!! Screw wyches and incubi my cc will be done souly with venoms raiders and the odd ravager!

Good luck to you, sir

This could be pure awesomesauce for us!

2+ units in each raider.

Raiders and venoms move fast.
Some units disembark.

Everything shoots.

Raiders, venoms charge soaking overwatch and stopping units shooting next turn.
Units in raiders shoot with pistols.
Disembarked units multicharge.

Most of the enemy army engaged in CC.
Lots of dead dudesmen.
Lots of units not shooting next turn.

Repeat, Repeat, Winning!

The frontline boys may be telling the truth.
DE could OWN the alpha strike!    


EDIT - Reece has all but confirmed that DE vehicles will have FLY.
          So the turn after charging if they survive and are still in CC they can fall back and still shoot!

         Sweeeeeet!

This is quite possibly the dumbest thing they could have brought over from Age of Sigmar. It's so dumb in fact that I'm willing to bet they brought Byron Hall in specifically to work on it. Chimeras and Raiders and Rhinos had a combat value, it was called Tank Shock and Ram. Now those things have been rolled into some weird combat value BS that makes no sense. We're going to see things like Drop Pods winning combats with cultists. GW told us this wasn't going to be AoS and I knew that was a damn lie, I just didn't realize they were lying through *all* their teeth.

Yes, I think our boats are going to be stupidly overpowered for transports in close combat. Yes, I still think we're going to be overpowered in this new game. Yes, I'm still gonna win tournaments with this stuff. This is all technically good for Dark Eldar, and it does make the game simpler, but frankly I don't care. Vehicles swinging in combat is dumb. If you like the new rules, groovy. But imbecilic decisions like this are making me care even less about the new game.

We are not the only ones who can abuse this.

It will also be great for orks and nids and lets face it they deserve it (as we do).
We will have competition.

We will, and I said Orks and Tyranids would be good too, a long time ago. My wizard chess is firing on all sixes with this new edition. I just don't care, because things like vehicle facing and firing arcs were some of my favorite tactical aspects of the game.

This is just AoS, and I'll play it like I play shadowrun. Table people as quickly as possible and absorb the prize support like nourishment.

Yes you did predict this. Well done sir.
Credit where credit is due.

We still cant see even half of the picture yet but for the first time i'm really excited for DE!

I'm not, we're going to be "AoS army #41" with a Dark Eldar skin. Troops will be 4+/4+ with 5+ saves and a special rule if you have at least 10 in a unit, like a reroll or something. Vehicles and MCs will have enough wounds to enforce a Gaussian distribution across themselves so games will be easier to solve with calculus and statistics than with actual dice rolling. A scientific calculator and 5 minutes will predict the outcome of almost every 2 hour match.

Tarpit wyches charging while on board of the Raider, because FU overwatch! lol I hope the 3" movement before attacking includes disembarking from OT vehicles

I doubt it but it will be possible. But it would be one hell of a cool picture, wyches crashing their raider into the enemy and jumping from the raider straith on top of thair enemies. Now if that is not pirate style I do not know what is.

Hi everyone. This is my first time posting so would like to say a big hello to you all and I am hoping this place can be a good source of info that I think I am going to need as I contemplate returning to the 40K scene.

Just a few thoughts on the recent updates regarding the Dark Eldar...

1. Quite pleased with the new weapon stats. At first glance you notice that marines/termies now get a save against the Disintegrator Cannon, so initial thought was negative. But I think we are going to see more models with 2 wounds in 8th than ever before such as Primaris Marines and Terminators. The 2 damage -3 AP really makes the Disintegrator Cannon lethal against multi wound infantry.

Dark Lance is not bad when compared with the Lascannon. Lower in strength but a better AP so the majority wont have a save against it.

2. Still not sold on how good the Incubi will be. If they charge they hit first which will be the biggest help to them, but marines/termies now get a save against them. I am also curious about the possibility of having potential to hit modifier with two handed weapons...could this be a thing?

That being said will giving marines a save mean that the Incubi wont be wiping out the entire squad in the 1st combat phase meaning they could finish the job in your opponents turn which is much better...as long as the opposition don't fall back and expose the Incubi to shooting.

3. Wyches still suck for now. They have to be in combat to survive. The new mechanics of the game hit the Wyches hard. Initiative gone. Flat rolls to hit. Fall back from combat. All these rules hit Wyches hard and I dont see the roll off being enough to help them. Unless they are given poisoned blades. Seems their weapons took a hit as well. Re-rolls to wound now replaced with -1AP doesn't seem great.

4. Transports seem like they will be better now. No to hit modifiers on the move is great. Fingers crossed we still get a lot of shooting from the troops inside because I read somewhere there will be a limit and that it wont be all the troops on board being able to shoot. Pistols used in combat is pretty cool although I don't see it being used loads and finally attacks from vehicles...I am ok with this as long as it is only from vehicles that can move i.e tanks and not drop pods. It is perfectly reasonable to assume attacking a vehicle can be dangerous on the battlefield. For me I doubt our transports will hit any easier than others but they will likely have an -1AP due to spikes etc which is pretty cool.

This can only be seen as a positive for an army that fields so many transports.

So yeah, all in all the rules being released are interesting and I am excited about 8th. Like I said its my first post so please forgive me if I have made any mistakes on the rules...I am very rusty!

About shooting from transports.

The way I read it was that most models could not shoot out of vehicles. Vehicles themselves will have guns that can be operated by the troops on board (this was a rumour though, so use salt). But for us it is specifically mentioned that as open topped we can still shoot our own weapons. "Open Topped vehicles allow you to shoot out of them still, which is a massive benefit. You can even fire Pistol weapons out of the vehicle when it is engaged in close combat!"

That would make the most sense Meaver. Open top shouldn't have limitations on how many can shoot their weapons while on board.

If raiders end up being one of the best transports then will they go up in points?

I expect Shock Prows will do D6 Mortal Wounds on the charge and Chain Snares to be a -1 to enemy WS, if Envenomed Blades make a return their D6 poisoned hits would work again.

@ imateria I think that is way to hopefull.

Those d6 mortal wounds would be way to good.

I would not minde the chain snares to be -1 ws for the enemy.

I think there is more chance that instead of the ws6+ we will get ws5+ with chain snares.
Shock prow might get d6 damage and possibly ap-2 or something. Multiple wounds makes sense, but I doubt it will be mortal wounds without needing to hit and to wound and no saves.
But I think even our shiny bladed vehicles will be good in CC. If you want cc vehicles you will need to invest in walkers (or talos).

I also feel like save modifiers are a bigger possibility than extra damage or better hit rates.

Some thoughts: I know this topic is vehicles but I feel the need to discuss Dark Lances since so many of our vehicles are equipped with them. These are just my suspicions based on links and my own intuitions.

a) our vehicles will be clearly better overall
b) while they will fair better than most, they won't be that killy in melee, but importantly they can soak overwatch and tie up units. I predict those particular aspects of our vehicles will become a huge part of our strategy and army style.
c) I'm predicting 18" base movement. This will put our vehicles head and shoulders above the competition in the speed department. I predict everything will be able to move or "advance" as we've heard mentioned, and advance will be double movement distance at the expense of shooting and assault. Hence a Raider could move 36" if it needs to; compared to Jump pack units like Stormboyz who will have a base movement of 12" which will allow them to advance to 24". A lot of Jump pack units are assault units, and I think increasing their movement speed is part of GW's plan to make melee great again.
d) We will prioritize our targets and destroy 1-2 Vehicles a turn by just throwing more Dark Light at it until it goes down. It will be much more effective now because the removal of the Lance rule has made Dark light weapons much more points efficient. They are less specialized and are more the big thing killers we needed them to be, and we will need them more than ever because...
e) Poison will no longer be a rule, our weapons will just have stats like everybody else. So venoms will not be Monstrous Creature killers which is why we will need Dark Lances and blasters and blast pistols to do double duty. I'm glad Lances don't favor shooting at vehicles and are equally effective against all large targets given that change.

But this is all pure speculation we won't know until yadda yadda yadda...

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a) our vehicles will be clearly better overall

Absolutely.

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b) while they will fair better than most, they won't be that killy in melee, but importantly they can soak overwatch and tie up units. I predict those particular aspects of our vehicles will become a huge part of our strategy and army style.

I have a strong feeling that shock prows and chain flails will make them substantially better in melee than most other vehicles save perhaps Orks. For instance, I could easily see our Raiders doing like D3 or D6 automatic hits on the charge with a shock prow, like how Hammer of Wrath works now.

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c) I'm predicting 18" base movement.

I'm thinking probably more like 12" or 14", but with the ability for units to disembark after the movement and then charge. This means Raiders will move something like 14", units inside will then jump out an additional 6" or so, and then charge the gap. This is one of the reasons I think we're going to be very powerful next edition.

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d) We will prioritize our targets and destroy 1-2 Vehicles a turn by just throwing more Dark Light at it until it goes down

With big things losing effectiveness as they take wounds I see the role of the Dark Lance shifting to breaking the first big lump of wounds an enemy vehicle has, crippling it, and then letting small arms fire finish it off. Because our units are so fast, we will be able to outrun hobbled Knight Titans and the like much easier and much earlier than other armies.

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e) Poison will no longer be a rule, our weapons will just have stats like everybody else.

This is one thing I'm afraid of, and I have the feeling our weapons will just be a standard S3 or S4 gun with the only mention of "poison" being in the flavor text. This is reinforced by the fact that eliminating poisoned weapons would make the game simpler. However, "poison" as a theme is a very useful and straightforward way of buffing what would otherwise be sub-par units (like Wyches) so they might have left it in there.

In either case, from a mechanical standpoint, the new shooting rules will benefit us more than the poison rule ever did in the past.

Didnt they say in one of the post "Poison will even be able to hurt vehicles on 6's" ????

I swore i read that.

Perhaps those rifles will have poison and a Strength value. So we can hurt vehicles too.
Wait: is there some kind of vehicle or unliving keyword?

CptMetal wrote:

Perhaps those rifles will have poison and a Strength value. So we can hurt vehicles too.
Wait: is there some kind of vehicle or unliving keyword?

They been leaving that out on all post/teases for vehicles so far.

So.. i have a feeling they are leaving something out.

amishprn86 wrote:

Didnt they say in one of the post "Poison will even be able to hurt vehicles on 6's" ????

I swore i read that.

Not quite. In the Drukhari Article, it was mentioned that Venoms with Splinter Cannons will still be able to wound anything at least on a 6+ - which is consistent with the new damage table. It does not mention that the "Poisoned" Weapon characteristic exists in 8th edition. If it still exists, it will most likely be in a drastically different form.

/Edit: Since i already left a comment in this thread, might as well contribute my 2 cents regarding the new vehicle rule design:
All vehicles across the board having combat stats and being able to "fight" in close quarters is ridiculous and stupid. And the statline design indicates the vehicle damage table is entirely gone, which is also ridiculous and stupid. Simplification for the sake of a cleaner game is good in my book, but this is simplification to the point of surreal stupidity. Instead of reworking how tank-shock and ramming worked, they just turned vehicles into monstrous creatures with worse close combat skills and better armament. And Wyches are now able to tie up a vehicle in close combat due to their special rule? what the everloving F is this BS? I can just picture a mob of wyches hacking a landraider apart without the landraider being able to drive away... at least, i can picture it in bad fan fiction.

/Edit 2: Nevermind that last part about wyches tying vehicles up, re-read the rule. it specifies enemy infantry. Doesn't make the new vehicle rules any less ridiculous to a non-insignificant degree.

Painjunky wrote:

EDIT - Reece has all but confirmed that DE vehicles will have FLY.
          So the turn after charging if they survive and are still in CC they can fall back and still shoot!

          Sweeeeeet!

I feel like "Fly" will be the new "Skimmer", given out to anything that could somehow ignore gravity in previous editions (jump jets as per Crisis Suits, skimmer vehicles, skyboards, jump packs, jetbikes etc).  I bet it lets you move over terrain and other models as well as leave combat. Eldar scatbikes are still going to be lethal - even if you catch them, the survivors will back away and fill you full of laser.

CptMetal wrote:

Perhaps those rifles will have poison and a Strength value. So we can hurt vehicles too.
Wait: is there some kind of vehicle or unliving keyword?

I would imagine that if poison is reflected, it would be a bonus vs the "Infantry" keyword, rather than a list of exception keywords. I could see us getting S3 splinter rifles with +1 to wound vs infantry, for example; a big loss vs monstrous creatures if footbound monsters aren't infantry, but a lot cleaner going forward than listing all of the things it doesn't affect. Bad luck Necrons, you done got poisoned!