Almost Full DE rules w/ Picks

I have been running some mathhammer this evening and the results are interesting.

Infantry based weapons are far better value than anything vehicle mounted in virtually all circumstances. Big blocks of Kabalite Warriors with Dark Lances might be worthwhile. I'm thinking of a firebase of 60 Kabalite Warriors with 6 Dark Lances.

Splinter Cannons aren't that exciting, but aren't a terrible choice on infantry any more. On a Warrior they are just over three times the cost of a rifle for three times the firepower (more depending on range). Venoms outside 18" shooting at Guardsmen are the same points efficiency as Scourges with Heat Lances!

Shredders are inferior to Splinter Rifles, so don't worry about building any Shredder armed units.

Ravagers are expensive, and Disintegrators are good against Terminators and Primaris Marines, but not against many other targets.

Vehicles look pretty hard to kill with our shooting, which is a similar story to the present.

Hellstrom wrote:

SERAFF wrote:

Guys.

Windrider with scatterlaser costs 35 points per model.

That's everything you should know about new rules. Still wanna play 8th ed? Me not.

They are FA not Troops now.  Not that that makes much difference with the new Detachments.

And they lost Relentless on Bikes.  So 4's to hit.

Don't say anything. Just look at the SL profile for 15 points and at the Splinter Cannon for 15 points.

Close your eyes. And feel the Balance.

I just linked Absolutely everything

http://www.thedarkcity.net/t15433-full-rules-and-all-indexes

Have anyone looked at the fortification rules? They look amazing! Everyone can shoot out of them and bastion has 20w! Bastion of kabalites lookin guud!

SERAFF wrote:

Don't say anything. Just look at the SL profile for 15 points and at the Splinter Cannon for 15 points.

Close your eyes. And feel the Balance.

36", S6, Heavy 4 vs 36", Poison, Rapid Fire 3

So essentially it's longer ranged, fires more shots and wounds easier against anything other than non-vehicles that are T7 or more. For the same points cost.

Nice work GW!

SL?

Scatter Laser

Ah. At least their bikes aren't troops anymore.

That doesn't seem to make any difference. I've not seen anything that gives Troops a special role, like Obj Sec.

It does limit the amount of bikes they can take in a brigade detachment, and they need to take at least three troops in one.

Count Adhemar wrote:

SERAFF wrote:

Don't say anything. Just look at the SL profile for 15 points and at the Splinter Cannon for 15 points.

Close your eyes. And feel the Balance.

36", S6, Heavy 4 vs 36", Poison, Rapid Fire 3

So essentially it's longer ranged, fires more shots and wounds easier against anything other than non-vehicles that are T7 or more. For the same points cost.

Nice work GW!

Eldar always been slightly more cost efficient than DE

Always thought it was weird that we were such a heavily focused shooting army miles away from our source of pleasure. My personal opinion is that this codex makes the army feel a lot more fluffy. We'll see how it plays once I get the dice rolling.

And I don't understand why windrider cost 20ppm whereas the reaver costs 30 ppm. They are practically identical statwise, they just have +1A.

I don't know if drugs and pfp is worth the discrepancy.

Hitting on 2+ from turn 2 and choosing drugs may be worth the points.

Turn 3. Turn 2 rerroll charge and advance.

The melee weapons are super cheap, most expensive one is 10 points and that's the Huskblade which is less garbage than before. Shadowfield is actually free:
https://17890-presscdn-0-51-pagely.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/New40kChoosingArmyList1.jpg

In general, we seem better than before for non wych cult, grots are only 31 points each, kabbies 7 points.
Yes cult sux (succubus may be the noteable exception), to be fair cult only didn't suck in the 5th ed codex + reavers where bikes and 7th ed put all the love on bikes (other bikes were still better than reavers though).

Mandrakes are amazing now, even more so than 7th.

I don't see how cult sucks, every single one of their units is effectively better than before just in function of the possibility to choose drugs, and I include reavers in there, which are now S4 base with bladevanes.

Count Adhemar wrote:

SERAFF wrote:

Don't say anything. Just look at the SL profile for 15 points and at the Splinter Cannon for 15 points.

Close your eyes. And feel the Balance.

36", S6, Heavy 4 vs 36", Poison, Rapid Fire 3

So essentially it's longer ranged, fires more shots and wounds easier against anything other than non-vehicles that are T7 or more. For the same points cost.

Nice work GW!

I don't see how Scatterlaser is supposedly longer ranged, and at 18" or less we should have 6 shots unless they changed how rapidfire works. Agreed on the other points though. Oh well, at least their aim is worse now when they move and shoot with scatterlasers.

well, given what i found online, the following armies got massive nerfs as far as the leaks have given,

Astra militarum: leman russes and foot guards are weaker you cant blob anymore neither are the leman russes worth it.

space wolf : just general nerfs all around the board.

necrons : many point increases.

so as far as i can tell, most armies got either a point increase or were reduced in power,

dont have it on hand but reddit had the whole information on points and pictures.

so yeah i think were kinda improved or better said : we dident get worse then we were in 7nth.

Ah, but against T7 (and all the way up to whatever the highest toughness non-vehicle in game) we will continue to wound on a 4+.

Do Imp Nights count as Vehcles?

I actually think the splinter cannon may be better than the scatter laser. They seem pretty balanced to me. Splinter cannon doesn't lose accuracy when moving and also gets more shots within half range.

think that, when it drops, we're at a really good level, not to strong not to weak =P just a special army needing special commanders to beat the (insert curse word of your choice) out of marines and imperial soon to be slaves.

Khayyin wrote:

And I don't understand why windrider cost 20ppm whereas the reaver costs 30 ppm. They are practically identical statwise, they just have +1A.

I don't know if drugs and pfp is worth the discrepancy.

Seriously? Drugs and PFP are worth a lot to the Reavers.

Choose +1T on the drugs chart and you have a T5 W2 super fast unit that has an extra 6+ save and on turn 2 re-rolls charge distance...which I will give Heat Lances and Grav Talons and go hunting independent characters for lots of fun.

Dark Elf Dave wrote:

Khayyin wrote:

And I don't understand why windrider cost 20ppm whereas the reaver costs 30 ppm. They are practically identical statwise, they just have +1A.

I don't know if drugs and pfp is worth the discrepancy.

Seriously?  Drugs and PFP are worth a lot to the Reavers.

Choose +1T on the drugs chart and you have a T5 W2 super fast unit that has an extra 6+ save and on turn 2 re-rolls charge distance...which I will give Heat Lances and Grav Talons and go hunting independent characters for lots of fun.

That is a great idea!

Too bad we can only give one unit T+1 reliably but I guess the other ones would be worth it too.

How many would you use?

Wyches at 10 models strong can take 3 gladiator weapons and each of those weapons has an ideal target. Against high toughness take the gauntlets, against high wounds take the impalers and against weaker massed units take the razor flails...I like the variety in that. Then you apply the drugs and it gets even better with +1A or +1S both being useful but when you use these in conjunction with the weapon choices you can end up with a pretty decent unit that is customisable and fun to play with. NOT AMAZING but very versatile.

Mandrakes are interesting because I have never used them before. They can deepstrike deploy 9” from an enemy model. 10 baleblast shots at S4 -1AP causing mortal wounds on a 6…that’s very good. Then assuming they get the charge and are not wiped out in overwatch they could be making up to 21 attacks in CC striking first at S4. If you pick your target correctly you should wipe it out.