2000pt Vanguard Detachment . Pure DE Competitive 8th List

Hi All,

I'm returning from playing 5th and have been looking through the new index and religiously reading this forum to try and refine a tournament DE list. This is what I've come up with so far. See further explanation below:

HQ
Lelith 125

Elites
5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

575

Fast Attack
9x reaver w/ 3x heat lance, 3x grav talon 360

Heavy Support

ravager w/ 3x dark lance 155

ravager w/ 3x dark lance 155

ravager w/ 3x dark lance 155

465

Dedicated Transports
venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

475

2000 on the dot. -1 Command point for 3rd Ravager breaking the vanguard detachments rule, kind of new to how this works since I'm still on force org from 5th(also thinking about running scourges w/ dark lances instead of the 3rd ravager to get my CP back). Low unit count to increase the ability to go first as this army is extremely good at alpha strike. 29 S8 AP-4 shots to deal with any high priority heavy armor or armor in general that wants to stand in the way. Reaver unit with +1 T drug for a durable pack that hunts down characters w/ heat lances and grav talons. Venoms use maneuverability to get blasters and double splinter canons within range, kite enemy units, or objective control at some point in the game. Lelith to work as a defensive unit to interrupt enemy units looking to hunt my venoms(wondering what drug to give her for this purpose) or maybe potentially help the bikes in CC.

Critique and comments welcome. I want to make this list as good as possible for a tourney environment. Haven't play tested it yet but will be doing so soon as it's still WIP and open to changes. I know theres always room for improvement.

Thanks for taking the time to look if you did! Gonna go to bed now, have work in 5 hours but got too into this to go to bed.

I would ditch lelith, take two succubi, replace reavers with more trueborn and try to run it as a dual detachment to milk thos cp.

I would consider adding an aganizor and blast pistol to you troup leaders for sure.

personally i dont like lelith, or any of our HQs for that matter, running around on foot unless they are charging, too easy for an advance deployment unit to get close and destroy them.

scourge v ravagers is an interesting one. Scourge with 4 lances is 150 ravagers wiht 3 is 155 but ravagers can move with no negative and even advance with a -1 whereas the scourge will either be stationary or at a negative. The difference in toughness and more importantly ablative wounds needs to be considered as well a ravager can take several before being negatively effected a scourge unit can take one before eating into lance shots.

i see DL scourge being used in the same way that you would use devastators or guard heavy weapon teams but you can either DS or move them into an optimal position t1 and then sit them their putting shots downrange and only moving when you have completely dealt with whatever they were their for.
Ravagers are for more flexible they can move around to be where you need an extra few shots onto a tank or group together to bring down something big and then scatter to other targets, scourge can do this as well but the -1 to hit will hurt them in this endeavor.

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:

I would ditch lelith,  take two succubi, replace reavers with more trueborn and try to run it as a dual detachment to milk thos cp.

I would benefit from having an increase in CP. My only worry is by gaining more CP I am also decreasing my chances of guaranteeing myself first turn by increasing the unit count. Dropping lelith seems to be a common thing amongst the comments so I will try to brainstorm a little and come up with a revision.

Subsanity wrote:

I would consider adding an aganizor and blast pistol to you troup leaders for sure.

I could play around with dropping lelith and distributing her points on these upgrades. Something to consider, thanks for the input!

helvexis wrote:

personally i dont like lelith, or any of our HQs for that matter, running around on foot unless they are charging, too easy for an advance deployment unit to get close and destroy them.

scourge v ravagers is an interesting one. Scourge with 4 lances is 150 ravagers wiht 3 is 155 but ravagers can move with no negative and even advance with a -1 whereas the scourge will either be stationary or at a negative. The difference in toughness and more importantly ablative wounds needs to be considered as well a ravager can take several before being negatively effected a scourge unit can take one before eating into lance shots.

i see DL scourge being used in the same way that you would use devastators or guard heavy weapon teams but you can either DS or move them into an optimal position t1 and then sit them their putting shots downrange and only moving when you have completely dealt with whatever they were their for.
Ravagers are for more flexible they can move around to be where you need an extra few shots onto a tank or group together to bring down something big and then scatter to other targets, scourge can do this as well but the -1 to hit will hurt them in this endeavor.

Looks like lilith needs to be dropped, but how do I distribute the points is the bigger question? Lelith was placed to be a mobile deterrent for oncoming advances from the enemy on my venoms. Is this necessary is the question.

I would prefer the ravager overall to scourges but it does cost me a CP to field 3 total. This leaves me with 3CP at the start of the game. Scourges on the other hand do really help refine the alpha strike potential by getting 4 guaranteed lances to go off on turn 1 and bring me up to 4CP. I believe they would then be wiped off the face of the map in my opponents turn 1.  That’s where the tradeoff becomes tricky.

For starters two hqs will have a bigger cc attack output  than a lone lelith. Maybe two archons with agonizers and phantasm grenadelaunchers. Now you can take a vanguard and a spearhead detachment. Trade in a squad of trueborn with another hq, and split the reavers in to three squads of three, and you have an extra outrider detachment. You now have 6cp

The Vanguard and Spearhead detachments only give +1 CP each, so it would be 5 total, not 6.

Only the Battalion, Brigade and Super Heavy detachments give > 1 CP, +3, +9 and +3 respectively.

Hen Tai, the tentacle guy wrote:

For starters two hqs will have a bigger cc attack output  than a lone lelith. Maybe two archons with agonizers and phantasm grenadelaunchers. Now you can take a vanguard and a spearhead detachment. Trade in a squad of trueborn with another hq, and split the reavers in to three squads of three, and you have an extra outrider detachment. You now have 6cp

If I attempt to do this in order to maximize CP it still doesn't net me a good chance of getting turn 1 for alpha strike. Which I feel could be very beneficial for DE.

I was playing around with dropping lelith and 3 reavers for an archon w/ agonizer and blast pistol + 4x sslyth in the court. That would put me at 1999. This would function better as a second wave unit for disruption of enemy units attempting to come at my venoms. However, when keeping this purpose in mind would having the court on foot be problematic is the question. All in all I think this is superior to lelith for how I want the HQ to function in this list.

The court are all separate and thus deploying on foot would severely damage your chances of going first.

Looking at that list I would say the best HQ would be a haemonculus. Make all your vehicles <keyword coven> and give them all +1 toughness.

Another nasty trick is to make the vehicles <keyword ynnari> and give them all 6+ fnp. By bringing the yncarne I meant to add.

In a bubble of course.

And these are not casual fun suggestions but competitive.

You lose the power from pain rules as soon as you add ynnari

The Ynnari rule is applied on a model by model basis and vehicles don't lose pfp or gain SFD. However once they gain the ynnari keyword they become eligible targets for ynnari buffs including the yncarnes special rule granting 6+ fnp.

I revised the list. I think this version might be better with Alpha Strike in mind. Wanted to also make something that would work a little better(not great but better) vs hordes.

HQ
archon w/ agonizer and blast pistol 68
in court of the archon w/ 4x sslyth 176

Elites
5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

5x trueborn w/ 4x blaster 115

460

Fast Attack
9x reaver w/ 3x heat lance, 2x grav talon 355

Heavy Support

ravager w/ 3x dark lance 155

ravager w/ 3x dark lance 155

ravager w/ 3x dark lance 155

465

Dedicated Transports
venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

venom w/ additional splinter canon 95

475

1999

Could add a shock prow to round out 2000. Everything is now in a venom as well.