MOAR DAKKA!

As I have mentioned before the True Kin lack versatility in their arsenal. However, I prefer to be part of the solution than just whine about the problem.

So, here's what I'm thinking off the top of my head:

Disintegration rifle and pistol. Same S, AP, and damage, but 24" rapid fire and 12" pistol 1 respectively.

It gives us a good hard counter to superheavy infantry which is not vehicle exclusive.

- On what unit would you suggest it ? It would have to be expensive, it's so much better than any rapid fire weapon.
- I would like the grenades on the Kabalites (they are modeled with it anyway).
- I think giving cult units access to 18" harpoons lauchers that pull the unit towards them could be cool.

Mppqlmd wrote:

- On what unit would you suggest it ? It would have to be expensive, it's so much better than any rapid fire weapon.

better than rapid fire weapons in our army. It doesn't really compare to stuff like plasma rifles, cyclic ion blasters, ect. I figured it would just be a special weapon option, so Trueborn could take 4 for instance.

Quote :

- I would like the grenades on the Kabalites (they are modeled with it anyway).

I agree 100%. Maybe even give them pistols... nah, that is clearly asking too much.

Quote :

- I think giving cult units access to 18" harpoons lauchers that pull the unit towards them could be cool.

Cool, but I can't see Wyches doing it. Maybe make it an exclusive weapon for Wych Cult vehicles?

FuelDrop wrote:

As I have mentioned before the True Kin lack versatility in their arsenal. However, I prefer to be part of the solution than just whine about the problem.

So, here's what I'm thinking off the top of my head:

Disintegration rifle and pistol. Same S, AP, and damage, but 24" rapid fire and 12" pistol 1 respectively.

It gives us a good hard counter to superheavy infantry which is not vehicle exclusive.

I too have been advocating more Disintegrator weaponry for a long time.
However, I think it should keep being an alternative to Darklight.

Keeping this analogy, I would suggest a "Disintegrator Carbine" as an alternative Blaster and a "Disintegrator Pistol" as an alternative to the Blast Pistol.
Disintegrator Carbine: 18", Assault 3, S5, AP-3, D1
Disintegrator Pistol: 8", Pistol 3, S5, AP-3, D1

Similar to Blast Pistols/Blasters they have half the range and roughly half the damage compared to their heavy variants.

So, everything that could carry a Blaster could also carry a Disintegrator Carbine (Archon, Trueborn, Scourges, Kabalites) and characters who can use Blast Pistols could also take a Disintegrator Pistol.


But while I would love more Disintegrators in my army, I think we have a much greater need for an alternative to Splinter weaponry. Splinter weapons are great, but they leave us with a very big how against spammed GEQ.

Until 8th edition we could deal with GEQ just with the crushing numbers of Splinter fire, but that is gone and GEQ are much more spammable as well. I would suggest a weapon that is like a Bolter++.

What about:
Shrieker Rifles: 24", S4, Rapid Fire 1, AP0, D1, A unit hit by this weapon has its leadership lowered by 1.

Or maybe just straight S4, AP-1 fire. But I don't feel well with copying the stats of a Gauss Flayer
Or maybe S3 with re-rolling wounds.

Just giving some ideas.

I would prefer not to have just another boltgun as our alternative to splinter weapons. We have technology that is indistinguishable from magic and a vested interest in making our victims die as horrifically as possible.

Specialist poisons, like stuff that makes their flesh melt off and animate against them or something, would be a nice stopgap. Neural projectors that shoot raw agony directly into the brains. Nanite swarms that flay their victims alive. Gas grenade launchers that turn squads upon each other, only to have the survivors realize what they have done mere moments later. Be creative!

Another option on the Splinter Rifle options front would be Shard weapons.

So, the current Shard Carbine sould be changed to a Splinter Carbine.

And then we have Shard Weapons.

Pistol, Rifle, Carbine and Cannon, same
S3 AP0, D1.
Pistol 2, Rapid Fire 2, Assault 5, Rapid Fire 5.
Probably 1, 2, 5 and 10 points respectively.
Available to anything that can take their Splinter counterparts as an optional exchange.

Agony beam: range 12, assault 4, strength 3, ap 0, damage 1, automatically hits.

FuelDrop wrote:

Agony beam: range 12, assault 4, strength 3, ap 0, damage 1, automatically hits.

This just looks like a Liquifier that traded random AP for an extra hit and 3".

Also I'm not sure I like the name... Maybe if it was a psychic power? But we don't, and shouldn't, have those.

Frenzy Grenade Launcher: Range 18", Strength 8 AP -3 Damage * Assault D6.
Models hit by the Frenzy Grenade Launcher use Leadership instead of Toughness to determine wounds. Once the number of unsaved wounds has been determined, no damage is dealt. Instead, a number of models equal to the number of unsaved wounds in the unit, to a maximum of the number of models in the unit, make a shooting attack with all available weapons against the nearest unit, friend or foe.

Looks wicked.

10 points?
15?

Guard blob squad shoots up their bubbled Commisar. With Rapid Fire.

Would that work against vehicles too? I'd think not, but then you could be hitting the pilots...

Ikol wrote:

Looks wicked.

10 points?
15?

Guard blob squad shoots up their bubbled Commisar.  With Rapid Fire.

Would that work against vehicles too?  I'd think not, but then you could be hitting the pilots...

I honestly don't know what kind of points that would be worth.

It gives a good reason to use leadership shenanigans on broadsides, primerus types, centurions and the like.

I think that make it 10 points but make it mutually exclusive with the Phantasm Grenade Launcher, forcing you to act in concert to stack them rather than allowing one model to use both at once.


EDIT: Should clarify: I am envisioning this as a squad leader item rather than a special weapon that can be spammed by a squad of trueborn.

Maybe a vehicle based version that deals 2d6 hits would be a good option, similar to a horrorfex grenade.

I also envisioned it as a Phantasm equivalent

Vehicle mounted sounds good too.

I want to hit some Devastators with this!

FuelDrop wrote:

I would prefer not to have just another boltgun as our alternative to splinter weapons. We have technology that is indistinguishable from magic and a vested interest in making our victims die as horrifically as possible.

Specialist poisons, like stuff that makes their flesh melt off and animate against them or something, would be a nice stopgap. Neural projectors that shoot raw agony directly into the brains. Nanite swarms that flay their victims alive. Gas grenade launchers that turn squads upon each other, only to have the survivors realize what they have done mere moments later. Be creative!

Naturally. But I was more thinking in terms of gameplay, where you have a Rapid Fire 24" weapon that has a fixed strenght value but also have a unique rule that sets it apart.

Oh boy, you want the fluff for my Shrieker Rifles?
They are flechette launchers that shoot living organisms that have the shape of tendrils. They got their name because they make a terrifying high-pitched sound when they fly past an enemy at close distance that sounds almost like a scream.

When accelerated, they get hot and easily tore through flesh and even basic infantry army. Once a tendril hits a target, it digs deeper into its body and leeches off the life essence of its victims.

In terms of warfare it is similar to other Dark Eldar weaponry, where it functions as a two phase weapon. First, it can neutralize its target by the painful impact and then the victim suffers the following neurological shock from being leeched off.

I think combining fluff and what is needed for gameplay, a S3 weapon with re-rolling wounds would be most appropriate. Excellent against GEQ, slightly better against MEQ but far worse against T6 and beyond when compared to Splinter fire.

The reason DE use poison so much it's not very lethal and extremely painful => more pain gain.
We thus have to find a concept that is not killing enemies on the hit, but making them suffer a long time.

I would suggest "Tormentor Rifle" : the tormentor rifle is a weapon that shoots waves of disturbing frequences that break the bones and peel the flesh from their victims. After a salve of those weapons, the battlefield is layered by formless, faceless, but alive piles of flesh.
Assault 3, range 18", S3. If one or more model is slain by this weapon, you can rerolls 1's to wound for attacks and shots made against the same target until the end of your turn, as the survivors are already half decayed.

One fun Heavy weapon would be the "Thousand Stings Laucher" : The Xeno-biologists from the arenas of Commorragh have worked for thousands of years on selecting the most painful insect sting in the galaxy. They then invented a nano-robot that mimics the behavior of some atrocious insect, and equipped it with the poison. The "Thousand Stings Laucher" unleashes an infinite amount of those tiny little pain-bearers.
Range 24", Rapidfire 6, S4, AP-1. Instead of rolling to hit for this weapon, you give the dice to your opponent, and lets him roll the dice using the WS of the target unit. For each dice that fails, a hit is generated.

A simple solution, or at least aid against, hordes would be to give our splinter weapons a Str value and change the poison rule to "If the target's Toughness is higher than this weapon's Strength this weapon always wounds the target on a wound roll of x+" (typically 4+)

Assuming a standard S4 for Splinter rifles, pistols, carbines etc, they would wound GEQ on a 3+, flocks on a 2+ etc but anything tougher would still be wounded on their fixed value (4+ currently)

I like the idea of some non poison weapons for the general warriors, but, the idea of out shooting the IG seems daft to me. Not every army should have every weapon for every case, otherwise we're just duplicating them.

Shape your army to get in their faces instead of trying to outshoot a shooty army?

It bugs me that poison weaponry is so inefficient against T3. I mean, if i was to inject some poison into the veins of a human and an elephant, i think i would assume the poison to have a greater effect on the human than on the elephant. The whole "always wounding on 4+" is a TERRIBLE representation of how poison should work.
Splinter weaponry should be absolutly lethal for low toughness enemies, and not that concerning against high toughness enemies.

Like a normal weapon? That isn´t helpful either

Some medium weapon like the disintegrator rifles would be nice,
Although I would prefer something to show our tactical superiority, maybe  a phantasm grenade that makes people feel alone in the dark: unit cannot recieves (morale) buffs, this would already help a lot with the problems we have right now with massed horde armies.

Also the main reason why we are good versus vehicles etc is because we can spam dark lances. I would rather have the options for heat lances, haywire etc also be possible, so I would not just spam 1 type of weapon.

Or a sniper that removes every aura ability for one turn

Mppqlmd wrote:

It bugs me that poison weaponry is so inefficient against T3. I mean, if i was to inject some poison into the veins of a human and an elephant, i think i would assume the poison to have a greater effect on the human than on the elephant. The whole "always wounding on 4+" is a TERRIBLE representation of how poison should work.
Splinter weaponry should be absolutly lethal for low toughness enemies, and not that concerning against high toughness enemies.

"When rolling to wound, treat this weapon's Strength as being equal to x minus the target's Toughness unless the target is a VEHICLE in which case it wounds on a 6+"

Then you just need to find a fair value for x. I'd say somewhere around 10-12?

In WHFB there was a very good rule for poison (Grave Lotus), which was : a model wounded by the Grave Lotus has to roll a die. If the result is over his Toughness, he dies. 6 is always a failure.
Agreed, you can't give that rule to an entire army, but i'd love to see something like that for DE in W40k.
That wouldnt help against guards though ^^

Quote :

"When rolling to wound, treat this weapon's Strength as being equal to x minus the target's Toughness unless the target is a VEHICLE in which case it wounds on a 6+"

I would say 10. Wounding T4 on 2+ would be a bit broken

How about we fix the weapons we have got first before inventing new ones?

I'd love for the Shredder to become Assault 5 at S4 with it's re-rolls to wound, The Haywire Blaster becomes Assault 2 and/or does additional Mortal Wounds on a 2+ instead of 4+, the Heat Lance becomes S7 and the Liquifier S4.

just mak it our flamer:
d6 auto hits S6.

Mppqlmd wrote:

Quote :

"When rolling to wound, treat this weapon's Strength as being equal to x minus the target's Toughness unless the target is a VEHICLE in which case it wounds on a 6+"

I would say 10. Wounding T4 on 2+ would be a bit broken

Given the lack of AP on our splinter weapons it's not actually. It still takes ~5 splinter shots to inflict a wound on a MEQ!

Imateria wrote:

How about we fix the weapons we have got first before inventing new ones?

To be clear, my ideas were to replace the existing rules for splinter weapons.