DE VS new Guard round 2

Ok so I said I'd report in on my second game against Guard so here it is. This will be short and sweet as to make it an easy read. I tried...

DE

2000pts

Vanguard;

Archon, SP, Agoniser

x3 10 kab's, 9 rifles 1 SC

x7 Scourges, P.lance, SC, 2 DL's

x5 Mandrakes

x2 Sslyth

x1 Lhamaen

x1 Medusae

x2 Ravagers, lances all round

Spearhead

Haemonculus, electro, stinger

x2 Reapers

x1 Tantalus



Guard. Cadian,

Pask, executioner, 2 HB, 1 HF

Tank commander, battle tank, 3HB

x1 standard Russ, 3 HB

x1 Eradicator, 3 HF

x1 Vanquishers, 2 Melta, 1 Lance

4 chimeras, HB each

x4 vet squads, 2 with 3 plasmas and 2 with 3 meltas

x2 Commanders bobbing about with them

x2 sentinels, 1 lasc, 1 auto

Mission was number 3, whatever that's called. Number of cards per turn number and such. deployment was hammer and anvil.

I got first turn with only having to put down a total of 9 units.

Turn 1 DE.
Ok so this was actually terrible compared to my usual turn 1's. Tantalus advanced and shot up Pask, used strategem to give plus 1 armour and actually saved a few. Raiders, Ravagers and Reapers took shots at respective Russ' that were near and in line of sight. Putting a Vanquisher to 5 wounds as well as a Russ. Took down by about 6. That's all to note really like I say, terrible compared to what I've done before.

Turn 1 Guard.
Ok so his turn was also really bad, the dice gods hated us both it seems. Ordered Russ' and Eradicator for grind them to dust and shot up the Tantalus mostly, took about 5 wounds off it. Pask also shot the Tantalus taking 2 wounds off it.Vanquisher on 5 wounds shot the Reaper and sent the meltas at the Tantalus. Luckily due to the loss of wounds and invul' on the Tantalus it took no wounds. The Reaper however was put down to 4 wounds and Luckily survived. The Tank commander tried to take out the Tantalus, failed miserably. The Russ on 5 wounds shot up my second Reaper and took a few wounds off it. Chimera's rushed up with the Vet's inside to get them close to put damage out next turn. Sentinels did nothing

So overall terrible for both of us.

Turn 2 DE
Took out Vanquisher on 5 wounds having to combine a Reaper and 2 Raiders to finish it off. Ravager took out the Eradicator. Other Reaper and Ravager shot up a Chimera each. doing 5 to one and reducing the other to 1 wound. Tantalus shot up Pask putting him to 5 wounds. Tantalus was close, and big enough   to charge Pask and a nearby Chimera. Put Pask down to 1 wound if I remember correctly, my main aim was to reduce his shooting in the following turn. A Ravager charged the chimera that had lost 5 wounds, again to reduce shooting and the Reaper failed its charge against the Chimera on 1 wound.

Turn 2 Guard
Pask and the Chimera's back off, Vet's got out first. Vet's shot up my Reaper on full wounds putting it to 5 and las' took another, damn it   Chimera not in combat shot the Ravager to no avail. On the other side of the board the Chimera that wasn't in combat and the Vet's concentrated on my Reaper killing it and taking a few shots at a nearby Ravager taking 2 wounds or so off it. Tank commander and battle tank along with some other Vet's took the Tantalus to 4 wounds. Plasma Vet's took a Ravager down to 4 wounds as well. Sentinels again did nothing to note.

Turn 3 DE
Ravager shot up Russ on low wounds killing it finally. Reaper just finished off the Chimera on 1. Kab's in the Raiders and Tantalus finally had something worth shooting at, and here's the weird bit. Each squad was in half range and such for 24 shots, (9x2 rifles and 1 SC). They each targeted a Vet squad, scoring roughly equal hits, 9 WOUNDS EXACTLY EACH   , and then 7,7 & 8 died from each squad. My Archon and his court along with the Haem' decided to actually do something by this point. They got out to go after a nearby company commander, they shot up the Vet squad near the Tantalus putting them down to 1 guy. Shot the commander putting him to 1 wound. Ravagers shot up a Chimera each taking a good few wounds off them. Reaper tried to go at the tank commander that was still alive, dang it. He lived ;( Tantalus shot up the tank commander taking more wounds of him. Scourges and Mandrakes finally came down at this point. Mandrakes killed off 2 Vet's left from one squad, Scourges shot up the 4th Vet' squad still at 10 strong and killed none. Their lances went at a chimera each doing naff all. Tantalus charged the last Vet' and Pask, Pask thought sod it and overcharged on overwatch killing himself   Tantalus killed the last Vet'. The Archon and his court all charged the commander, one Sslyth charging a chimera to tie it up and took a wound in the process and returning the favour. Commander died to the Archon. Mandrakes failed their charge at the last nearby surviving Vet' so the Ravager on 4 wounds went in and failed to do anything. The one surviving Vet' by this point ran away.

By this point I had scored first blood, slay the warlord, secure 2, blood and guts, and secure 5, and something else. Can't remember.

Turn 3 Guard
Tank commander shot up and killed my Ravager on 4, Sentinel's managed to killed the Tantalus. Vet's at full strength shot up a Sslyth on 3 and killed him with meltas sending las' at the Scourges doing nothing. Chimera's shot a Reaper and a Ravager each failing to do much. It was by this point he'd only scored 1 VP, kill an enemy that was on an objective. The Tantalus. It was about now he was getting ready to call it there.

With little units left and the tank commander and Chimera's on such low wounds he failed to do any major damage apart from picking off my low wound units. He called it here and conceded.

I lost my Tantalus, 1 Reaper, 1 Ravager, and a Sslyth.

He lost Pask, Vanquisher, Eradicator, Russ, 30 Vet's, Chimera, and a Commander.

At the end of it it was my 6 VP's to his 1.

This list is a major improvement from his body spam Valhallen one. I've decided I'll write his list next time to see if I can come up with something better. Though this list was a solid all rounder in this game.

In the previous game that your refer to as "body spam" how many bodies did he have? I'd consider 200 a minimum for guard. Many players use over 300. Also I would suggest to him to build a Catachan detachment for his Russes (the reroll on shots for battle cannons firing twice is brutal) and a separate Cadian detachment for his foot troops.

I wrote a battle report this time last week for said list, check it out if you want to get an idea of what I was up against. There were plenty of bodies, but also a super heavy. So not as many as your thinking, whether you consider that spam or not I dunno, I do. Were plenty of bodies there xD I guess I'd have to get other peoples opinions on the list I have ready for him to use, as an ex Guard player I think it's good.

How did you like the Sslyths?

Sslyths to me are great and keep the list more fluffy and cool. I normally take my armour save on my Archon as to not waste the invul' against low end weapons. Then just par off wounds to the Sslyth if I have too. Their strength an -Ap in combat certainly have done their part and most games get their points back.

If Un-Ghul had even -1ap i would so use them, i want to use Sslyths i love them but they are so costly for what they do.

URIEN wrote:

I normally take my armour save on my Archon as to not waste the invul' against low end weapons.

I hadn't even noticed that you could do that now. Used to be that you had to use the best save available, which would always be the shadow field and which usually failed for me within the first couple of saves. Good spot!

Count Adhemar wrote:

URIEN wrote:

I normally take my armour save on my Archon as to not waste the invul' against low end weapons.

I hadn't even noticed that you could do that now. Used to be that you had to use the best save available, which would always be the shadow field and which usually failed for me within the first couple of saves. Good spot!

7th faq actually said "best available means what you think is best for your army and you can pick if you have multi-saves".

Hence why DA players started to pick their 4+ jink re-rolling over 3+ saves

amishprn86 wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

URIEN wrote:

I normally take my armour save on my Archon as to not waste the invul' against low end weapons.

I hadn't even noticed that you could do that now. Used to be that you had to use the best save available, which would always be the shadow field and which usually failed for me within the first couple of saves. Good spot!

7th faq actually said "best available means what you think is best for your army and you can pick if you have multi-saves".

Hence why DA players started to pick their 4+ jink re-rolling over 3+ saves

I think that was for situations like the one you mentioned where a worse save that was re-rollable was statistically superior to a better save that wasn't re-rollable. I'd have had an issue with anyone arguing that a 5+ was a better save than a 2++ though.

Count Adhemar wrote:

amishprn86 wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

URIEN wrote:

I normally take my armour save on my Archon as to not waste the invul' against low end weapons.

I hadn't even noticed that you could do that now. Used to be that you had to use the best save available, which would always be the shadow field and which usually failed for me within the first couple of saves. Good spot!

7th faq actually said "best available means what you think is best for your army and you can pick if you have multi-saves".

Hence why DA players started to pick their 4+ jink re-rolling over 3+ saves

I think that was for situations like the one you mentioned where a worse save that was re-rollable was statistically superior to a better save that wasn't re-rollable. I'd have had an issue with anyone arguing that a 5+ was a better save than a 2++ though.

Well the Shadowfield didnt work this way b.c it said "if the bearer takes an unsaved wound it is removed" so the 2++ was always the better option.

Yeah I pulled that one off in 7th as well, saves wasting the best invul' going on say a lasgun. Thing is with the wound order, PFP and the warlord trait. You get to take armour and both 6+++'s before the Sslyth HAS to try and take the wound instead. To which he then gets his PFP. Unfortunately it does mean if a Sslyth is on one wound and you'd rather keep him alive, due to the wording of "Cold Blooded Bodyguard", you have to try and take the wound for the Archon. I normally run two, and since the rule would take effect at the same time I normally get to decide, I would put wounds across both of them.

URIEN wrote:

Yeah I pulled that one off in 7th as well, saves wasting the best invul' going on say a lasgun. Thing is with the wound order, PFP and the warlord trait. You get to take armour and both 6+++'s before the Sslyth HAS to try and take the wound instead. To which he then gets his PFP.

Unfortunately Sslyth don't have PFP unless I've missed a FAQ somewhere.

Holy sweet hell, what an oversight on my part Well then... Not game changing in any sense, taa for that.