DE are insane with PL's

Discussion Lead me to Check, this came up in a SoB thread (a SoB won a PL only tournament, but all SOB players know PL is unblanaced when it comes to them, they are insanely stupid b.c every model can have a special/heavy weapon for the same cost of 4PL as SM's that only get 2).

But then i thought about Trueborn... and WOW they are just as good, Looking at PL, either Kabal Warriors need to be 1 less PL or Trueborns needs to be 1 more.

I was able to make a 100PL list with 2600pts +, the only other army i know of that can do that is SOB (same points oddly 2600pts+). Give or take 10pts.


My DE 100PL list 2 Vanguard detachments

Archon: PGL, Blaster, Agoniser
Archon: PGL, Blaster, Agoniser
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
Trueborn: x5, x2 Blasters, x2 DL's, Blast Pistol, Agoniser, PGL  Venom: x2 SC's
RWF
RWF (1 PL i had 2pl left over)

22 Blaster, 20 DL's, 10 Blast Pistols ( 52 Dark Light weapons), 20 Splinter Cannons, 10 PGL's, 2618pts


My Sob list, 2 Outriders

Celestine x2 Gemini
Canoness: Relic, Inferno Pistol
Imagifier (gives +1 AoF, i had 2pl left over)
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM
Dom: X4 MG's 1 Combi-Melta - Repressor, 2HF, SB, HKM

40 Melta/Combi Melta guns, 16 Heavy Flamers, 8 Hunter Killer Missiles, 8 Open top Rhinos with Scout.

4 Outrider Detachments. 4 Archons with Blasters, Huskblades and PGLs. 252 Razorwing Flocks.

100 Power Level. 3856 points.

HOLY CRAP... yeah just thought about that, RWF are 1 PL for 3 bases lol

Edit: You can take a Beast Master in a couple detachments to make it 3 detachments if there is that restriction

Right, it was mentioned in the developer FAQ/Errata/whatever that came out a few weeks after 8th was dropped. Power Levels are designed to be the power level of the average weapon choice for a unit. For basic troops where at max they can take 1 extra special weapon, the points balance makes sense. For heavy weapon teams though, is where the balance gets broken. You can have a Space Marine Dev squad either all take weapons or none of them take weapons. lets say something like this:

No weapons - 5 man - 5 PL
2 Heavy Bolters - 5 man - 6 PL
4 HB's- 7PL
2 Lascannons - 8 PL
4 Lascannons - 10 PL
2/4 Heavy Flamers - 6/7
etc etc etc.

Those PL listed above total sum of 49 for 7 entries. That's an average of 7 PL. Guess what Dev squad's PL is?

So if they actually made PL register different weapon choices, it would essentially be a quicker, slightly dumbed down version of points. To which I'll end this post. I think it would be fluffy and overall smarter if they made it possible to, with moderation, in tournaments, have some PL dedicated to special weapons, which you can switch between units, between battles.

Also yeah, RWF. 10/10.

I suspect Razorwing Flocks are like that because they were originally 7 points each, and the points have been updated but the power levels haven't.

I suspect I wont play a power level game in 8th edition, so not too worried about the amusing imbalances that can happen.

Why is PL a thing again?

SushiBoy013 wrote:

Why is PL a thing again?

Because GW thinks their customers are dumb people that can't use a calculator.

Because in regular missions you get bonus command points if you have less PL then the opponent!

Even when playing points power levels matter XD

Considering how many people failed at determining the point cost for units at the start of 8th, just because the layout of the point cost was different I think they might be right

Quote :

Considering how many people failed at determining the point cost for units at the start of 8th, just because the layout of the point cost was different I think they might be right

Maybe they shouldn't have put the profiles and the point costs at 2 different places.

I have no idea why they did such a stupid thing. I thought it would be corrected in the Codices, but no...

Mppqlmd wrote:

Quote :

Considering how many people failed at determining the point cost for units at the start of 8th, just because the layout of the point cost was different I think they might be right

Maybe they shouldn't have put the profiles and the point costs at 2 different places.

I have no idea why they did such a stupid thing. I thought it would be corrected in the Codices, but no...

Because that way, they can just copy-paste the rule sections and just modify the point page. Because, you know... Why modify perfectly designed units?

You can always modify the values after copy-pasting.

Unless GW is working exclusively with PDFs, and doesn't know how to modify the text in their rulebooks. Which would explain A TON of things.


More seriously, to me it looks like a dumb way to convince people to buy the books. Like
" - Hey, look, we share the profile on the internet, and those units look soooooo powerful, don't they ?
- Uh, sure, but how many points does it cost ?
- Hahaha ! You'll have to pay 30 bucks to find out, you nosey little mouse !"

I am a fan of the precision and balance of points, but power level is much easier to calculate and also allows you to use a unit almost with no restrictions at all which is nice. I understand that it can take away some of the mystique of allowing yourself to use 'expensive' wargear and units, but playing PL my wyches and bloodbrides have been crushing it.

Points are ultimately the more realistic choice for matches and competition, but PL can make for some really fun games and honestly aren't that far from the points cost unless you are making cheese lists or trying to go out of your way to expose the pure difference.

PL gives plenty of advantages and not every army benefits, but it is easier and lets you go wild with wargear generally. I recommend to 'points only' players, to consider them and give them a shot. It can feel like 40k without guard rails sometimes. Granted I am in a group with a lot of newer players though.

Flagrant abuse that points don't allow for is the only thing PLs are good for, the the aforementioned RWF does it in spades. It's my personal favorite unit to trot out whenever someone insists on a PL game.

edit: I don't mean for that to sound snarky, it's that PL games are the 40k version of munchkin D&D.

TeenageAngst wrote:

PL games are the 40k version of munchkin D&D.

Like button?

If you do the razorwing flock army, you probably want to lose a few flocks to incorporate the yncarne and maugan ra, they work well in this army

PFI wrote:

If you do the razorwing flock army, you probably want to lose a few flocks to incorporate the yncarne and maugan ra, they work well in this army

Don’t know if you were here for this, but me TeenageAngst practically made that list (and similar hordes) his flagship for pointing out broken loopholes and problems with 8th edition during the early days of the Index.

PFI wrote:

If you do the razorwing flock army, you probably want to lose a few flocks to incorporate the yncarne and maugan ra, they work well in this army

I had the Razorwing army down to a science. Everyone was running it wrong, way too heavy on the birds and way too light on the broken aspect of the Tantalus. Sadly it got nerfed before NOVA which was the first major GT I could attend.

And 8th is still a dumpster fire, it's just spread to the adjacent buildings so no one is paying attention to the burning trash anymore.