Archon,Lelith & Incubi

im thinking of trying out something,having an unit of Archon (with agoniser,blaster,maybe a webway portal and either clone field or shadowfield),Lelith & 5 Incuni in a raider.

1st turn either move raider flat out (to get 4+ cover) or move forward and shoot,next turn move forward so it can shoot,disembark and drop wwp and assault whatever should be close enough,lelith on average will have 9 attacks,then archon,then incubi all ignoring armour.
of course from this point on everything will jump out of the wwp at them

im wondering what others think of this,or if there is a better way of doing it,i really want this unit together as i think archon and lelith would work amazingly together but would need some protection from shooting

Only problem you have with dropping a WWP on turn 2 is that you might end up with your units becoming available from reserve before the portal is down. If you are playing WWP you want two of them and have one dropped turn 1 so you don't end up having to foot slog across the field with at least a part of your army. Especially as stuff normally deployed in a portal doesn't have much of an armour save to speak of (except the engines).

that is a good point,however in turn 1 the wwp wouldnt be anywhere near where i want it to be

Personally I find the 26" WWP drop more than enough. Running 2 WWP you should be able to spread them out far enough whether you using wracks, grotesques, incubi, wyches, or hell even warriors to which you have two WWP not right next to each other. I followed Natfka's idea of putting one hame on one end spread out the Grotesques and a Hame on the other end. I pretty much have two WWP with a full raider in between (front of hull to back).

I would not recommend that setup, an archon and Lelith in the same raider, and that raider is the only thing you deply? If I was your opponent all I had to do is to shoot one av 10 raider, and you have to walk with both your hg. If you’re going with wwp, take at least two, so you can deploy one in the first turn and one in the second.

I think that unit would do better coming out of the WWP than trying to deploy it - unfortunately you can't make that work for you except in Apocalypse style force orgs.

What do you see as the big 'strength' of the combo? Because I'm missing it. Lelith doesn't particularly help the Archon, nor does he particularly help her. You could get roughly the same combo, for cheaper, with better stats (and being more fluffy) by making it Succubus + Lelith. The only point for the Archon when paired with Incubi, would be if he was bringing a PGL - otherwise I'd probably just take Wyches or Bloodbrides. Heck, Lelith+Bloodbrides+3 Shardnets+Archo w. Clonefield might actually be a pretty funny and obnoxious build that would basically lock out any other unit in the game.

Conversely, you could pair Lelith with a Haemon to get her FNP to start with, and that's not shabby either.

I'm neutral on your build - if you do want to do it I would rethink the WWP aspect, or at least drop the Blaster.

i was thinking the strength of the combo would be a possible 35 ignores armour attacks on the charge before the enemy can even hit back (this is of course assuming the enemy is IG-as that was the army i was fighting that i wanted to try it out against)

How many point's are you playing? With the more points the more WWP you could bring with cheap Hame's. Having three WWP dropped in three different locations. The trick is to ether go first or survive your enemy's first turn. We can do that by using terrain and FF but there's still that risk. WWP is a high risk tactic. You portal carrier's can get shot down turn one. your unit's can trickle out into a turkey shoot, the enemy can surround your portals. so on and so forth.

I think low games under 1500 points it's probably way to risky to try. At 1500 it's worth it but still high risk but oh so fun when you blitz your opponent on turn 2! Higher games you can probably trick your opponent into shooting at other things.

One idea is that you can turbo boost other ravagers and raiders to act as a shield for the WWP or deploy them as a shield.

You just need to remember that your WWP carriers are most likely going to take the blunt of the enemy's fire so you can ether try to make them survivable with Grotesques or have sacrificial hame's.

On another note i suggest Reavers with caltrops out of a WWP against horde army's.

ive decided to drop lelith and the wwp.(in my army,i currently only have Archon,1 Sslyth,Baron Sathonyx,Lelith Hesperax,10 Hellions,10 Kabalite Warriors & 1 Razorwing Jetfighter) my army once i buy everything will be this:

HQ
Archon (Blaster,Agoniser & Shadow Field) - 125
Baron Sathonyx - 105
The Court Of The Archon (1 of each) - 75
ELITE
10 Incubi - 220
5 Mandrakes - 75
10 Kabalite Trueborn (2 Blasters & 2 Dark Lances) - 220
TROOPS
10 Kabalite Warriors (1 Shredder & 1 Splinter Cannon) - 105
10 Hellions - 160
10 Wyches (2 Hydra Gauntlets) - 120
FAST ATTACK
9 Reavers (3 Blasters) - 243
5 Scourges (2 Blasters) - 140
DEDICATED TRANSPORTS
Raider (Chain Snares,Flicker Field,Night Shields) - 85 [Incubi]
Raider (Chain Snares,Flicker Field,Night Shields) - 85 [Warriors]
Raider (Chain Snares,Flicker Field,Night Shields) - 85 [Trueborn]
Venom (Chain Snares,Night Shields & Splinter Cannon) - 80 [The Court & Archon]
Venom (Chain Snares,Night Shields & Splinter Cannon) - 80 [Mandrakes]
HEAVY SUPPORT
Razorwing Jetfighter (Splinter Cannon,4 Shatterfield Missiles,Flicker Field & Night Shields) - 195
Razorwing Jetfighter (Splinter Cannon,4 Necrotoxin Missiles,Flicker Field & Night Shields) - 195
Talos Pain Engine - 100
=2488

now i only get to play games in my local GW store so i will never actually be using the full 2500 points (2000 at most) but i like to make all my armies 2500 points so in the small games i have options and so i can buy all the models i like weather or not ill actually use them,any advice on this list would be appreciated

Advice on the list, well here we go.
Archon,
He can’t have both the blaster and the agoniser, one has to go. If blaster stays, give him djin blade.

Incubi
10 incubi is a few incubi to many. An av10 transport with 200pts of close combat monster? There poor transport will be top priority for your opponent. Perhaps split the unit in two?

Mandrakes
Awesome models, poor rules. I would not use them.

Trueborn
Split them in two squads. Those with lances can be deployed in a nice cover and shoot. The once with blasters can sail around in there transport and shoot at shorter range. The popular blaster-born squad is 3-4 with blasters.

Reavers:
Perhaps split them in to different squads. That way they can threaten more vehicles at the same time.

Scourges
Being close with blasters in more a trouborn job, I give them ether heat-lance for suicide, or haywire launchers.

Transports:
Chain sneers is kind of mhee. And the raiders does not need flicker filed. A 5+ iv is nice, a 4+ cover from the venoms is free. Also, mandrakes cant take transports.

Talos
Give this gay a chain snare, it makes him twice as awzome in close combat, and I would give him a tl haywire, that way he trenches vehicles both at range and in assaults.

my understanding of the Archons upgrades 'replace close combat weapon and/or splinter pistol with:' means i can swap the pistol for the blaster and ccw with agoniser as thats how it works with space marines,if this is wrong can you please refer me to the page number saying so

Incubi-as i played space marines and tyranids before DE,ive learned small units is bad,big units is good.i guess ill find out soon when i get my 1st 5 incubi

Mandrakes-yes youre right,cant take a transport.ive seen a lot of people saying they arent very good,but i like the models so i will get some,weather or not i will use them depends what happens when i buy them

trueborn-again,experince from playing space marrines,small bad,big good (it means when the unit takes damage,the non special weapons die 1st.i would like 4 blasters but i dont want to buy another box of something just to get the weapons so i have to use what i have/what i will have

reavers-only the blasters can hurt vechcles so i will be using them to fly over and attack infantry and shooting at them,and a bigger unit would cause more damage

scourges-i dont really know if i even want them,dont really like the models all that much so they were really just to fill in points

transports-i love using chain snares,its awesome flying over units and getting to hit them and depending how fast i moved i still get to shoot them

talos-again more or less just filling in points,and wanting at least 1 thing that isnt T3,if i wanted MC id probably go back to tyranids

JDragonM32 wrote:

my understanding of the Archons upgrades 'replace close combat weapon and/or splinter pistol with:' means i can swap the pistol for the blaster and ccw with agoniser as thats how it works with space marines,if this is wrong can you please refer me to the page number saying so

A bit clumsy expressed by my. What I meant is this, that if you replace both the pistol and the ccw you lose one attack. A blaster is requires two hands, so it may not be used with another weapon in cc. An archon with an agoniser and a pistol will have 5 attacks, with the blaster and agoniser only 4. And cc is what the archon wants to do. And yes with the blaster he can threaten tanks, but you should have enough at in your army. In the end it all comes down to play stile, if your archon fancy a blaster and agoniser, by all means take them.

JDragonM32 wrote:

Incubi-as i played space marines and tyranids before DE,ive learned small units is bad,big units is good.i guess ill find out soon when i get my 1st 5 incubi

This is correct for both the space matines and tyranids, the dark elder play by different rules.
There is no “to small” unit. You can always run multiply of them and throw more of them to battle.
And then you assault you enemies fight them unfair, let two or more of your units assault one of the enemies. The trick is to cripple the enemies almost to death in the first round. Because you want as few attacks back as possible, but you also wants a second round of combat. Way? If your units are looked in an assault in the enemies shooting phase, they can’t shoot you. So most of our troops are safer in close combat. Wyches are a shining example of what I mean.

JDragonM32 wrote:

trueborn-again,experince from playing space marrines,small bad,big good (it means when the unit takes damage,the non special weapons die 1st.i would like 4 blasters but i dont want to buy another box of something just to get the weapons so i have to use what i have/what i will have

Again with spacemarins this is true. Dark elder warriors and trouborns more often than not stay inside the raider for protection. Remember, we are t3 and have next to no amour. And raider dies too easily to consider putting 150+pts of troops in them. with the abundance of AP1 weapons and Ordnance out there shooting at our Open-Topped vehicles, it's only around 3/4 of the time that our vehicles explode when destroyed.

JDragonM32 wrote:

reavers-only the blasters can hurt vechcles so i will be using them to fly over and attack infantry and shooting at them,and a bigger unit would cause more damage

A bigger unit can actually cause less damage then two small. One unit of 6 bikes with two blasters have the potential to blow one vihecle evry turn. Two units of tree with one blaste each costs the same, but they have the possibility to destroy two vehicle in one turn. And then comes surviveal. If one enemy unit shoos at your unit of six bikes, they can kill all of them. If I have two units of bikes, thay can only kill three. Leaving my other three bikes to cause more havoc the following turn.

JDragonM32 wrote:

scourges-i dont really know if i even want them,dont really like the models all that much so they were really just to fill in points

If you have point to spear, don´t spend them on fast attack, spend them on troops and heavy support.

JDragonM32 wrote:

transports-i love using chain snares,its awesome flying over units and getting to hit them and depending how fast i moved i still get to shoot them

Again, this comes down to play stile, if you like it take it.

JDragonM32 wrote:

talos-again more or less just filling in points,and wanting at least 1 thing that isnt T3,if i wanted MC id probably go back to tyranids

Talos with Chain Flails and Twin-Linked Haywire Blaster. It's a MC that rocks in CC, and it can stun enemy vehicles if it doesn't feel like Running. It's also cheap enough to take 3 of them in a 1500-point list. I have no clue why these guys aren't insanely-popular.

i originally had him with a blast pistol & aganiser but im not a fan of the 6" range

my raiders dont seem to die too quickly,in fact the only time 1 died with a unit still inside was my 2nd game using DE and it moved flat out-imobilised=dead,although with a guaranteed to cause death unit like Incubi maybe it would

yes and no,although i could target different things,the enemy is bound to have enough units to be able to kill all 3 units,so not really sure what to do on that 1,this unit would mainly be AI but the blasters give at least 1 per unit the ability to be AT if needed

im not really a fan of the talos as a MC,i like the tyranids better but the advantage a talos has is it doesnt look as scary as a trygon so people ignore it until it kills have their army and then they think 'oh,maybe i should kill that thing'