Kabal of the Black Heart- Labyrinthine Cunning

I'm confused about this warlord trait:

Roll a d6 each time you or your opponent "spends a command point to use a stratagem". On a 6, you gain one command point. It may not be original, but that's never stopped it from being useful. Pair it with Agents of Vect and your opponent will strongly reconsider using any kind of Stratagem against you.

People online in battle reports roll a die for each command point used which would make this warlord trait great.

But there's a similar warlord trait which makes me question the fact that people roll for each spent command point on a single stratagem:

Astra Militarum: Grand Strategist: "Roll a Dice for each Command Point spent when using Stratagems. On a5+ that Command Point is immediately refunded".

The Astra militarum one suggests that you roll for each spent command point, the Drukhari one only suggests that you roll for each used Stratagem that uses Commandpoints.

Or is the wording just super confusing? If it's meant to be the same, then why is the wording so different?

Rolling a die for each spent command point everytime ANYBODY uses a stratagem seems way to strong in my book, I just watched a 1850point battle report where the drukhari player basically ended up having 15 or more command points in total at the end.

It allows you to roll a die for each command point spent. So if you spend two command points then you roll two die and for every six you get a command point back.

I do not know why the wording is different.

It's a strong warlord trait, possible let the strongest for archons but it's not overpowered. You still have to roll a 6 for it to go off, if say you and your opponent have 18cps between you that's only 3 on average you're getting back over the course of the game, solid but not overpowered. Also if you have 15 cp at the end of the game you're either incredibly lucky, getting a 6 every time or you're not using stratagems effectively.

So wait, you compare it to an Astra Militarum trait that is way more powerful, but then complain about the Drukhari trait being too strong? Astra Militarum armies basically start at 12+ CPs without even trying, and theirs gives refund on a 5+.

withershadow wrote:

So wait, you compare it to an Astra Militarum trait that is way more powerful, but then complain about the Drukhari trait being too strong? Astra Militarum armies basically start at 12+ CPs without even trying, and theirs gives refund on a 5+.

I don't see the AM trait as being way more powerful. Ours works on 6+ for any CP spent, the AM one works on a 5+ but only really works on your own stratagems (unless you enjoy giving your opponent Command Points).

Lord Asvaldir wrote:

It's a strong warlord trait,  possible let the strongest for archons but it's not overpowered. You still have to roll a 6 for it to go off, if say you and your opponent have 18cps between you that's only 3 on average you're getting back over the course of the game,  solid but not overpowered. Also if you have 15 cp at the end of the game you're either incredibly lucky,  getting a 6 every time or you're not using stratagems effectively.

3 CPs is an additional Agents of Vect
I'll take it!

Count Adhemar wrote:

withershadow wrote:

So wait, you compare it to an Astra Militarum trait that is way more powerful, but then complain about the Drukhari trait being too strong? Astra Militarum armies basically start at 12+ CPs without even trying, and theirs gives refund on a 5+.

I don't see the AM trait as being way more powerful. Ours works on 6+ for any CP spent, the AM one works on a 5+ but only really works on your own stratagems (unless you enjoy giving your opponent Command Points).

AM also has an item to roll each time an enemy uses a stratagems
Yes getting 15+ command points even with vect seems a bit hard
With AM it is more dependent on how many detachments you can take than anything else, but getting 15+ command points in a 2k game is easy.

|Meavar wrote:

AM also has an item to roll each time an enemy uses a stratagems

Its nice when AM gives me more command points.

I tack an AM Supreme Command onto my Blood Angels. With Grand Strategist, Kurov's Aquilla and the Veritas Vitae I'm rolling x+1 dice for every xCP I spend on a stratagem and getting a CP back for every 5+ AND I'm getting a CP back on a 5+ for every stratagem my opponent plays. It generally means I can go a bit nuts with CPs at the start of the game and still not run out by the end.

When I take my GK or AdMech I usually try to take a patrol of scions for the CP regen abilites ( also their deepstrike and murder ability isnt bad either).  AM are so unbelievably cheap and make most imperial armies amazing.

withershadow wrote:

So wait, you compare it to an Astra Militarum trait that is way more powerful, but then complain about the Drukhari trait being too strong? Astra Militarum armies basically start at 12+ CPs without even trying, and theirs gives refund on a 5+.

- Grand Strategist gives you a CP back on a 5+ when you spend a command point.

- Labyrinthine Cunning gives you a CP back on a 6+ on any spent command point.


How is the AM one way more powerful? It's exactly the same when both armies have the same amount of CP. If your oponent has more CP than you, than the Drukhari warlord trait is more powerful. Same if it's the other way around. AM and Drukhari both have the best CP regenerating warlord trait in the game.

AM just has another way to regenerate CPs through a relic. But the relic "only" works on stratagem used, not command point spent.

AM can have twice as many CPs without really trying and have a relic to regain it off of the enemy too.