Trying to decide between two Kabal/Coven lists

I finished converting some Grotesques recently and thought I'd mark the occasion by taking them to a 2000pt tournament at one of my local places instead of one of my usual pure Kabal lists. I don't have much experience with Coven stuff but I love how they look on the board with my Kabal models so I'm hoping I can make them work. Here are the two lists I've come up with so far. They're both pretty similar but I'd appreciate any advice.

List 1:

Black Heart Battalion

HQ:

Archon
Warlord
Labyrinthine Cunning
Writ of the Living Muse
Agoniser

Archon
Agoniser
Helm of Spite (with the Prizes From The Dark City stratagem depending on whether they have any psykers or not. Same goes for the other list)

Troops:

Kabalite Warriors x 5
Blaster

Kabalite Warriors x 10
Blaster
Blaster
Splinter Cannon

Kabalite Warriors x 10
Blaster
Blaster
Splinter Cannon

Heavy Support:

Ravager x 3
Disintegrator Cannons

Transports:

Raider x 3
Dark Lance
PGL

Prophets of Flesh Battallion

HQ:

Urien Rakarth
Diabolical Soothsayer (with Alliance of Agony)

Haemonculus
Electrocorrosive Whip
The Vexator Mask (with Prizes From The Dark City)

Troops:

Wracks x 5

Wracks x 5

Wracks x 5

Elites:

Grotesques x 10

Heavy Support:

Talos
Macro-Scalpel
Macro-Scalpel
Haywire Blasters

Talos
Macro-Scalpel
Macro-Scalpel
Haywire Blasters

Talos
Macro-Scalpel
Macro-Scalpel
Haywire Blasters

List 2:

Black Heart Battalion

HQ:

Archon
Warlord
Labyrinthine Cunning
Writ of the Living Muse
Huskblade

Archon
Blaster
Huskblade

Troops:

Kabalite Warriors x 10
Blaster
Blaster
Splinter Cannon

Kabalite Warriors x 10
Blaster
Blaster
Splinter Cannon

Kabalite Warriors x 10
Blaster
Blaster
Splinter Cannon

Heavy Support:

Ravager x 3
Disintegrator Cannons

Flyers:

Razorwing Jetfighter
Dark Lances

Transports:

Raider x 3
Dark Lance
PGL

Venom

Prophets of Flesh Spearhead

HQ:

Urien Rakarth
Diabolical Soothsayer

Elites:

Grotesques x 8

Heavy Support:

Talos
Macro-Scalpel
Macro-Scalpel
Haywire Blasters

Talos
Macro-Scalpel
Macro-Scalpel
Haywire Blasters

Talos
Macro-Scalpel
Macro-Scalpel
Haywire Blasters

So yeah, I either go all in with the Covens or I cut them down a bit for more Kabal things. Either way I'll be using the Writ Archon with the Dissie Ravagers while the other either flies around in their own Venom or in a Raider with a small Warrior squad. Both allow me to potentially quickly scoop up and relocate the Writ Archon if I need to. The Covens half of the army will have the Talos and Grots surrounding Urien while, in the first list, the Wracks squads will surround the Haemonculus and both advance up the board on foot. Hopefully the Grots are getting enough of a reputation this edition that they might attract enough gunfire for my Raiders and Ravagers to do their thing without getting blown out of the sky.

As a pure Kabal player I'm feeling kind of antsy with so few lances in either list but I want to try something different so we'll see how it goes.

P.S: Kinda unrelated but I'm seeing a lot of people claim the Grots have AP-2 which I'm not seeing anywhere. Maybe I'm just an idiot but all I can see is the Monstrous Cleaver with AP-1. Can somebody tell me where the extra AP is apparently coming from?

The monstrous cleaver in my codex has ap-2.
Do you have an english version?

|Meavar wrote:

The monstrous cleaver in my codex has ap-2.
Do you have an english version?

I don't have my codex handy right now but I've been mostly using Battlescribe lately (which claims the cleaver only has AP-1). Probably not the best idea in retrospect. I assumed it had been updated somewhere I hadn't noticed but I guess their data is just incorrect?

You second list is similar to what I've been toying with. I'm just not as big a fan of the 5 man wrack units personally. I wouldn't worry about the Lances as dissi do very similar dmg Vs t7 vehicles and better against everything else.

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GreyArea wrote:

You second list is similar to what I've been toying with. I'm just not as big a fan of the 5 man wrack units personally. I wouldn't worry about the Lances as dissi do very similar dmg Vs t7 vehicles and better against everything else.

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Honestly, while I like Wracks, I'm not married to the 5-man squads. I'd prefer to take them in a couple of squads of 10 but the battalions requirements are what they are. I'd take a spearhead detachment instead but, since I'd probably be taking a Haemonculus besides Urien to hang out with the Wracks anyway, it feels like kind of a waste to lose the extra 4 CP I guess.

Monstrous Cleaver is definitely AP -2.

As far as the lists go, I'm liking the second one better. I think Wracks have a very specific role. Mostly they can camp objectives well or screen effectively for your army. Units of 10 are best for that, and usually just one will do. With Prophets of Flesh you don't even need a babysitting Haemy really, since you can just re-spawn the unit provided it isn't wiped.

Meanwhile, both Talos and Grots are fearsome in close combat, especially with Urien nearby. They suit your intentions much better. That said, keep in mind that good opponents will know it's those damn Dissie Ravagers and persistent splinter fire that's going to drag them down in the end. The (relatively) slow Talos and Grots can usually be ignored for at least one turn.

Also, if there's any way you could drop a Raider and find some points to replace it with 2 Blaster Venoms then I would suggest doing that. That's the only way your second Archon isn't a complete tax since he can run on foot and at least give the Venoms some re-rolls. If you really want your raiders at least give him a Sslyth bodyguard or two. An entire Venom for a single Archon is really kind of meh.

Thanks. Honestly I feel like most of my compulsion to include Wracks stems from the fact that I just bought some Raging Heroes proxy models and I kinda want to show them off a bit. You're right though, they're a little situational.

I just really like the idea of the two halves of the army being massively dangerous but in completely different ways. My opponent has to choose whether they focus on the Kabal stuff that's shooting them now or the Coven stuff that will definitely cause them some big problems later. Hopefully I can make that choice a bit harder by holding back my Kabal units at first and letting the Coven make a little ground before racing forward and opening up with my splinter guns. Eventually I'll get a pretty good idea of which side of the army my opponent is more afraid of and then do some work to take advantage of it. In theory at least.

That being said, there is a pure Covens player who plays at my local place sometimes. Watching his battles has taught me that, weirdly enough, people really really don't like letting Talos get close to them.

I've been considering dropping a Raider for more Venoms so I might try that. Another idea would be to fill the command Venom with Sslyth to make it essentially a super mobile 2+ blaster shot with a whole bunch of splinter fire, strong melee potential and ablative wounds to back it up. The problem with that is I would be choosing either that or the Razorwing and I'm not sure if they're worth the loss of a flyer.