2000 List Idea Kabal/Cult

So I am new to DE and haven't even picked up any models yet (shame I know), but I am working on moving my current armies to fund my DE start. Now, My thought is to have 2 battalions here (one kabal - black heart) and one Cult (red grief). Let me know if it is solid, and could be workable.

Battalion 1 - black heart
archon - splinter pistol, huskblade
archon - splinter pistol, huskblade, living muse, cunning
3x5 kabalites w/blaster
2 ravagers - 3xdissies
3 venoms - dual cannons

Battalion 2 - red grief
succubus - archite glaive
succubus - archite glaive, hyper-swift reflexes (I can do alliance of agony with 2 warlords right?)
2x9 wyches w/2 shardnets
5 wyches - shardnet
2x6 reavers w/2 grav-talons and 2 blasters
2 raiders w/dissies

Flyer wing (black heart)
2 razorwings w/lances & rifles
voidraven with lances and missiles

So the ravagers and planes I feel will be the heavy hitters, along with the wyches and succbii in CC. I want the reavers to be my 1st turn (shut down shooting units) guys flying across the board advancing and charging.

Any glaring weaknesses? Muse and cunning will help with rerolls and CP recycling, and I have access to AoV to help shut down my opponent's strats (I'm looking forward to playing a BA player and shutting down decent of angels muahaha )

Anywho, anything I could improve on? I am thinking of 2 cult start collecting boxes and 2 kabal to start to get most of my transports out of the way, minus 1 venom. Then I'll grab the planes and ravagers (if they come back on GW's site... )

Thanks in advance y'all

Yes, you can do Alliance of Agony with only 2 of the 3 potential Trait recipients.

It's a killer list for sure. Ravagers, Flyers and Reavers are arguably 3 of the most competitive choices in our codex and you've got them all in abundance. Aside from that, I tend to lean Kabal/Coven over Cult (with the exception of Reavers) but if you want to run Wyches, 2-3 units in Raiders or 20 man blobs in a WWP is the way to do it.

So, leaving the two Battalions untouched, the Flyer wing is something you can take a look at. 6+ FNP is always handy, but I think Flayed Skull really wins out for the Flyers. Ignoring Cover is excellent on Razorwings and a the extra movement is great on anything. If you didn't already have a Black Heart Detachment I would say definitely Black Heart, if only to unlock AoV, but you already have one.

Other than that looks solid. Bonus points for making use of those rather mis-matched 'Start Collecting' sets.

Thanks for the feedback! I just want the boxes because they'll get me more models for cheaper than piecemealing it out. I would need 2 of each SC box, +1 venom, then the ravagers & flyers to get my list up and running. I already have the book.

Do you find the datacards worth it? I have the GK ones, but I had psychic powers to remember, without that I'm not sure. I think it'll still be worth it though lol

So I think I'm going to have to rework the list. I think I can get all of these units for the $ I believe I can get back for my models I currently am trying to sell. Namely trading the ravagers for scourge. Almost getting 2 scourge units for 1 ravager. Almost lol Here we go, my main problem with the above Idea is that I won't get enough wyches from the start collectings to have 2x9 and 1x5. I'd have to drop off to 2x7 to do that. Are 7-wych units effective?

Battalion - Black Heart
Archon - blast pistol, huskblade
Archon - blast pistol, huskblade, LC, Writ of Living Muse
5 kabalites - blaster / sybarite w/agoniser PGL
5 kabalites - blaster / sybarite w/agoniser
10 kabalites - 2 blasters
5 scourge - 4 blasters
5 scourge - 4 haywire blasters
raider - splinter racks, dark lance
venom - stock
venom - stock

Battalion - Red Grief
Succubus - blood glaive, hyper-swift reflexes
Succubus - archite glaive
8 wyches - shardnes, hydra gauntlet / hekatrix w/blast pistol
5 wyches - shardnet hekatrix w/blast pistol
5 wyches - shardnet hekatrix w/blast pistol
raider - shock prow
venom - stock
2x6 reavers w/2 blasters / arena champ w/agoniser

Flyer wing - poisoned tongue or black heart
2x razorwings w/dizzies & rifles
voidraven w/lances & missiles

So one 5-wych unit will be on foot, which I don't think will be too big of a problem as they can be a backfield tarpit if need be, and then my archons will be on foot as well as the non-warlord succubus.

Do you think this is a problem, and I need to get another venom? Or change the wyches to 7-girl units and roll both raiders in the cult and slam the succubii and wyches in their grill turn 1, as I intended before - coupled with the reavers?

Decisions, decisions! Stoked to be getting some models though! This week should be it!

Overall looks pretty solid to me. I don't see why you're using black heart though, you gain very little benefit from their rules in this list. Writ of living muse is going to be near useless since your archon can't really buff all your warriors at once, and he can't buff them while they are in their transports. Living muse is great for sitting back with ravagers, but not for warriors in transports. Unless you're super attached to using black heart, I'd switch to any of the other kabals which would definetly benefit all the warriors. Flayed skull would be my personal preference.

One other note, the 8 man wych unit can't take 2 wych cult weapons, you only get more than one weapon at 10 strong. I'd keep the shardnet&impaler, that's the weapon that really matters most for them.

I appreciate the feedback Asvaldir, I guess I am not totally nailed down to black heart, as I am going to paint my kabal stuff as Lords of the Iron Thorns, but I feel I like the bonus and it seemed to do me some good adding to my PfP on my units, but I see your points that the archon buffs would work better with my original list with the ravagers.

On the wych question, would you rather see two raiders loaded with 7-apiece (one shardnet, forgot about the special weapon counts) wyches and a succubus?

So I think flayed skull is the better option for the kabal units, and I am thinking of keeping the air wing as black heart though, as I still want access to agents of vect.

Any thoughts here? I don't know what warlord trait or relics to bring now for my archons, djinn blade maybe?

I like Djinn blade and famed savagery, S5 and 8 attacks doing d3 damage is nasty. Just have to get him into combat quickly to make them worth it imo

Ok, good call. Now with the transports listed, should I throw him into a raider with the wyches? Since all my stuff is getting rerolls anyhow?

Soooo, I got a little carried away and kinda optimized your list into something that fits my style while trying to keep all the models generally the same. I did have to swap 1 Venom for a raider, if you wanted to stick with a Venom and put a squad on foot I'd probably put kabalites on foot.

Battalion - Flayed Skull
Archon - Huskblade, blaster,pgl-97
Archon - Huskblade, blaster-93
Famed savagery, djinn
5 kabalites - blaster-47
5 kabalites - blaster-47
10 kabalites - 2 blasters, Sc-104
5 scourge - 4 blasters-100
5 scourge - 4 haywire blasters-100
venom x2 SC-65
venom x2 SC-65
Raider w/DL-85
Raider w/DL-85
Raider w/DL-85

Battalion - Red Grief
Succubus - blood glaive, hyper-swift reflexes-54
Succubus - Agonizer, glaive-54
6 wyches - shardnet, agon-63
5 wyches - shardnet, agon-54
5 wyches - shardnet, agon-54
6x reavers w/blaster x2, grav talon x2-154
6x reavers w/grav talon x2-120

Flyer wing - Black heart
Razorwing w/Dark Lances & cannon-155
Razorwing w/Dark Lances & cannon-155
voidraven w/Dark Scythe & missiles-165

You'll see I took out the blast pistols and moved the transports around, did some small changes with wargear as well. I gave the Archons blasters and pgl from the index because 2+ blaster and pgl with rerolls are amazing.couldnt find points for 2 blaster on the second reaver squad but they should be tying up units in CC anyways. The transports are all Flayed Skull to give them the bonus move/ifnire cover. 6 Wyches and the HQs go in a raider, 10 man warriors in a raider, and either 2x5 warriors or Wyches can go in the last raider and the rest into Venoms or vice versa. Gives you some flexibility and the ability to split a 10 man basically. I put agons on the Wyches for obvious reasons.

I tried to keep the same units/style but just make it a little nastier. Lmk what you think. Cheers!

Good stuff! You think the blaster is the better choice for the archon over the blast pistol, even on the djinn blade who I want to charge stuff? If I get stuck in for a couple rounds I have grad dreams of evaporating an opponent in my shooting phase with a blast pistol Overall I find it solid! I might value the blasters on the reavers versus the cannons on the venoms? Or am I light on anti-infantry fire?

Also (sorry for so many questions!) If I was going to leave 10 kabalites in my backfield, should I run 2x5 w/a blaster or 10 w/2xblasters and a lance? I could even leave my non-djinn archon to buff them as well and be a decent counter-charge unit with his husk blade.

Thanks boss! I really appreciate the responses!

You could probably get away with going blast pistol on the Archon with djinn blade,zero especiallyan is to get him in combat asap. I'd say try them both and see what works better.

I don't think the reavers are going to live as long as you hope. They're really good at tying up shooting units turn 1, advance/assault any non flyer and they're unable to shoot for a turn, and they can fly over any other bubbles to get there. But they will probably get focussed when your opponent realsizes what a nuisance they are.

I've always felt you run 2 cannons on venom or you don't run them at all, you want the range advantage and having the rifle negates that.

I'd say it depends on the mission/deployment etc. If you have 1 objective you want to hold in your deployment zone, leave the big squad. If you want to push hard take the 10 man forward and drop them out with an Archon for rerolls.

And no prob, I love list building. It's like half the fun of the game for me lol

I appreciate all the feedback boss. Just now going to get an idea of what I can get from FLG for my grey knights. If I can get what I am wanting I'll order the bulk of what I want from them with store credit. Selling a chunk of guard this saturday as well, and if the store I'm meeting the guy at has some DE stuff I'll be picking that up as well