2000p Tournament List (WYSIWYG needed, that´s why the Talos loadout...)

Hi,

Lost Vyper here,

I´m going to the one of the biggest Finnish 40k tournaments ( https://2018.ropecon.fi/eng/ ) for the first time and here´s the list i´m going to run...as the title suggested, i have only the Talos i have in the list, so no need to comment on those here, cos i don´t have them magnetized...

So of we go!

Battalion + Spearhed (and gonna use a CP for Alliance of Agony, d3 CP and a re-roll for the Haemie)

Ropecon Kabalite 2000p 1/2

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [46 PL, 953pts] ++

Detachment Attribute: Kabal of the Obsidian Rose

+ HQ [8 PL, 172pts] +

Archon [4 PL, 86pts]: Blast Pistol [10pts], Hatred Eternal, Huskblade [6pts], The Armor of Misery, Warlord (Archon)

Archon [4 PL, 86pts]: Blast Pistol [10pts], Huskblade [6pts]
(most likely going to use a CP to get Helm of Spite here)

+ Troops [8 PL, 191pts] +

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior [18pts]
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [23pts]: Blaster [17pts]
. Sybarite [6pts]: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [2 PL, 47pts]
. 3x Kabalite Warrior [18pts]
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [23pts]: Blaster [17pts]
. Sybarite [6pts]: Splinter Rifle

Kabalite Warriors [4 PL, 97pts]
. 7x Kabalite Warrior [42pts]
. Kabalite warrior with Heavy Weapon [26pts]: Dark Lance [20pts]
. Kabalite Warrior with special weapon [23pts]: Blaster [17pts]
. Sybarite [6pts]: Splinter Rifle

+ Elites [8 PL, 160pts] +

Mandrakes [4 PL, 80pts]: 4x Mandrake [64pts], Nightfiend [16pts]

Mandrakes [4 PL, 80pts]: 4x Mandrake [64pts], Nightfiend [16pts]

+ Heavy Support [14 PL, 280pts] +

Ravager [7 PL, 140pts]: Dark Lance [20pts], Dark Lance [20pts], Dark Lance [20pts]

Ravager [7 PL, 140pts]: Dark Lance [20pts], Dark Lance [20pts], Dark Lance [20pts]

+ Dedicated Transport [8 PL, 150pts] +

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon [10pts], Splinter Cannon [10pts]

Venom [4 PL, 75pts]: Splinter Cannon [10pts], Splinter Cannon [10pts]

++ Total: [46 PL, 953pts] ++



Ropecon Covens 2000 2/2

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (Aeldari - Drukhari) [61 PL, 1045pts] ++

Detachment Attribute: Prophets of Flesh

+ HQ [5 PL, 78pts] +

Haemonculus [5 PL, 78pts]: Scissorhand [8pts], Splinter Pistol

+ Elites [20 PL, 350pts] +

Grotesques [10 PL, 175pts]
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver

Grotesques [10 PL, 175pts]
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver
. Grotesque [2 PL, 35pts]: Flesh Gauntlet [3pts], Monstrous cleaver

+ Heavy Support [36 PL, 617pts] +

Talos [12 PL, 202pts]
. Talos [6 PL, 103pts]: Macro-Scalpel [4pts], Macro-Scalpel [4pts]
. . Two Splinter Cannons [20pts]: 2x Splinter Cannon [20pts]
. Talos [6 PL, 99pts]: Macro-Scalpel [4pts], Macro-Scalpel [4pts]
. . Two Haywire Blasters [16pts]: 2x Haywire blaster [16pts]

Talos [12 PL, 201pts]
. Talos [6 PL, 103pts]: Macro-Scalpel [4pts], Macro-Scalpel [4pts]
. . Two Splinter Cannons [20pts]: 2x Splinter Cannon [20pts]
. Talos [6 PL, 98pts]: Macro-Scalpel [4pts], Macro-Scalpel [4pts], Stinger Pod [15pts]

Talos [12 PL, 214pts]
. Talos [6 PL, 107pts]: Macro-Scalpel [4pts], Macro-Scalpel [4pts]
. . Two Heat lances [24pts]: 2x Heat lance [24pts]
. Talos [6 PL, 107pts]: Macro-Scalpel [4pts], Macro-Scalpel [4pts]
. .Two Heat lances [24pts]: 2x Heat lance [24pts]

++ Total: [61 PL, 1045pts] ++

I have played with this list (or variable) with loads of times and i know, it´s going to work wonders against some lists and against, like parking lots with Guilliman...sh***********t...not so well. I faced Guilly and multiple Repulsors in the last tournament and it was something awful...

But, old nightmares away from sight and on to create new ones

I have usually two things to DS, Mandrakes and either the Ravagers or the Grots the other two (3CP´s thou...darn!) will do the same. I love especially the Grots and their T5 & 4+Inv to hassle LOADS of stuff and with W4 now-a-days, they are a must! Mandrakes are a bit hit or a miss, they might deliver so much mortal wounds that anything dies, or do jack. I have almost had better luck with them in CC locking down some non-flying backfield guns.

For the obsessions,
Prophets, c´mon, is there another one?.
I have normally used the re-roll 1´s for poison for the Kabalites, but i played one game with Obsidian and the extra range in WAY better, more hits = more wounds from a far (duh).

I usually drop a 5 x Warriors & 10 man squad on an Objective(s) (depending the mission of course, and 2nd in command babysits the 10 man squad (with the Helm, he´s pretty good to deny backfield shenanigans)

Step in plz, if you have any insight to improve

- LV

First test game over against Custodes+Deathwatch...missions were Contact Lost + Frontline Assault...i won the game 28-7, which would have meant full 20-0 points to my advantage in the tournament point system .

Well, let´s just say, that Hellfire rounds to the Talos face re-rolling the 1´s is devastating...and also some of the Custodes CC and making the saves of 2+ or 3+, geez! My friend rolled like 12/14 3+! And to get the Custodes dead with poison...well, took SOME effort .

I was happy with the Obsidian Rose + Prophets -obsession combo. Tournament has the Power lvl thingy in what can u drop from DS or whatnot, so i had one set of Grots & Mandrakes come in turn 2 and same set in turn 3, which turned out to be an ok choice. This was the first time, that i actually had to use that and i´m glad, that i´ll have couple of more weeks before the tournament, to hone that skill aka what-to-put-in-reserves-and-to-drop-in-when...

Got to think about relics more, i used just Armor of Misery (and failed the first Shadowfield save...again...) in this game, but Vexator mask could have saved Talos from Overwatch...

I think the list is shaping up to be what i want, just the strategems, warlord traits (again Alliance of Agony was a must and Soothsayer for the Haemie) and the reserves to whip in to shape.

- LV

Another training session against the Space Wolves and i wiped him out in the 4th...not much to learn from this game, except playing the missions more thoroughly, forgot couple of things in the midst of battle. If he had more units, the points were not so far off from each other, but the sheer firepower cut him down...first turn, i destroyed 3 Ven Dreds with Lances...

Interesting side note, in the rules in the tournament, Aliiance of Agony CANNOT be used, unless having BOTH, Succubus & Haemie...well, there goes the extra cp´s.... But, the reserves thing was understood wrongly by my last weeks opponent, the Powerlevels come only in play DURING the deployment. After that, you can drop everything in turn 2 (as i did )if needed...

- LV

Any good stories of murder and misery with your Warlord?

I'd also love to hear how the large coven detachment worked out. How did the grots vs. the talos perform? Is there a minimum size to that sort of detachment that you think would be ok? It seems like threat saturation is a big part of it, as you note, but that detachment is over half your points.

Archon Gravon hasn´t really had his moment in these practice games yet, but i hope, that he´ll shine like a dark gem he is in the tournament...

Well, the AoM + Blast Pistol + Huskblade + Hatred Eternal is the best loadout i´ve had for the him and i use (minus the AoM of course ) the same loadout for the 2nd in command. The HE came in handy (again) yesterday, when the two Archons FAILED to kill a Drop Pod in my DZ with two Blast Pistols and i had to go in CC. 5+ to wound and the 2nd in command failed as did the WL, but the WLT saved my hiney, cos i did just enough wounds with the re-roll to kill the DP (needed that for Thousand cuts, cos failed tremendously in shooting phase...). I´ve found now, that if enemy has loads of snipers, that can really hinder the Characters boosts or just appearence on the table (duh, i know, but i haven´t face so many yet in the 8th edition, but love to use Eldar Rangers thou...) too.

As for the Covens part, that´s the best working piece in the puzzle at the moment and my favorite portion of the Drukhari.

I think the only thing that worries me, is the parking lots with re-roll everything. The 3+/4+ and 6+ FNP doesn´t really cut it, when there´s 100 shots coming your way...i felt this in the previous tournament.

But the Spearhead is the best way the get the max effort out of the Covens. No need for the useless Wracks (IMHO) and you can get the big and bigger boys out to play. Yesterday, was the best effort out of the two 2 x Heat Lance Talos. They disposed (by shooting!) a Ven.Dred and tussled with Björn for a while, before the "2+ to hit-re-roll 1´s and wounds on 2´s with a claw re-roll" - dude disposed them. But i have usually paired a HL Talos and a poison shooting Talos, but now, the two HL Talos are gonna stick together .

I really like also the 5 x Grots. They are 20 wounds with T5 with 4++ and 6+ FNP and can tango with anything with T5 or less. T6 and above, the struggle starts, but i´ve gotten better to unleash them on to softer targets, like Gray hunters and Blood Claws yesterday. I have contemplated an idea, to use one big 10 Grot blob to get less drops and save 2 CP´s, but they ´re pretty one dimensional after that, so i´m (with 95% certainity)  gonna keep the 2 x 5 Grots in the list.
I have the Haemie with just the Scissorhand and Vexator mask usually, or Helm, if facing loads of psykers. VM is nice way to block Overwatch, especially when going against like Fragcannons or flamers with the Talos or Grots and make the unit fight last might come handy, when trying to dispose some of the enemy´s CC units.

I think, i haven´t yet faced a REAL threat in these practice games, but i hope (fear), that my next weeks opponent brings the parking lot with Guilly and maybe even a Knight!
The tournament is going to be a real mystery, because there´s like maybe 5-10 guys from our FLGC and rest (over 20) is from somewhere else, so no idea, what i´m gonna face off against, but in the same time, refreshing

- LV

ps. Saw couple of the guys training for the tournament and saw (again) a s***load of Wave Serpents with just Cannons and a throng of Genestealers. Faced both of those type of lists last time and won the first and lost the 2nd...also, Hemlocks up the yingyang...smite!Smite!Smite!Smite!

CRISIS!

I just saw some lists from the tournament prior the one in couple of weeks...3 x Shadowsword + Guillyman etc...**breaths heavily in to a paper bag**

This got me thinking, should i still try some dirty Eldar list, that could work better against that kind of lists? I got around to this and i´m trying it out tomorrow, just to get a feel about it.

I know it is not a True kin list, but i have to know, which i feel is operating better against these MAX out lists...tomorrow against SM and the last game again against the Wolves (people are on vacation...)...

Battalion Detachment <Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned>

HQ1: Autarch Fusion Pistol (9) Fusion Gun (17) Power sword (4)
Swooping Hawk Wings,Banshee Mask, Forceshield [121]
HQ2: Farseer :  Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade [110]
Guide, Fortune

Troop1:  5 Dire Avenger [60]
Troop2:  5 Ranger [60]
Troop3:  5 Ranger [60]

Dedicated Transport1: Wave Serpent CTM (5) Twin Bright Lance (40) [157]

Total: [568]


Supreme Command Detachment <Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned>


HQ1: Warlock Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade [55]
Embolden/Horrify
HQ2: Warlock Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade [55]
Protect/Jinx
HQ3: Warlock Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade [55]
Conceal/Reveal


LoW: Wraithknight Two Heavy Wraithcannons (100) [502]

Total: [667]


Supreme Command Detachment <Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned>

HQ1: Spiritseer, Shuriken Pistol         [65]
Embolden/Horrify
HQ2: Farseer Skyrunner, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade,
Twin Shuriken Catapult        [135]
Doom, Mind War
HQ3: Autarch Skyrunner Fusion Pistol (9) Shard of Anaris(4) [113]
Banshee Mask, Forceshield, Twin Shuriken Catapult,
WARLORD : Ulthwe: Fate Reader

LoW: Wraithknight Titanic Ghostglaive & Scattershield (50) [502]

Total: [765]

Whaddya think? Plz, gimme an honest opinion, regardless of the usage of the weaker kin...

- LV

ps. I have a vote going on in our groups whatsapp and the Drukhari are in lead

Crisis averted...i realized, that i have not time to learn the new pony´s tricks, so i´m rollin with the true kin, untill the painful demise. So, today, it´s the Space Marines as an opponent and i asked to create a list, that he would take to the tournament...we´ll see in about 12h what happened

- LV

Well, a solid win 22-9, so 17-3 in tournament points. I could have wiped him off the board, but i had such a solid lead, i forgot to move couple of units in turn 4. Mandrakes were shining and Ravagers too (killed Guilly the first time), Grots disposed Guilly for the 2nd time.

His Devastators(?) were a bit pain, using the strategems to dish mortal wounds with Missile Launcher and the Heavy Bolter. Guilly was devastating in support and killing some Talos, but not impossible to kill.

I think this was not as tough (no Knights) as i expected it to be, and i might face some "surprises" in the upcoming tournament...

Still, remembered (almost) everything, some strategems are tough to remember when to use, but i´m like 98% ready to rock n roll with this list...no changes, it´s blood in, blood out

Archon Gravon had some fun with Scouts (killed the whole squad with first hits) and was a "tad" too eager to kill a Razorback, shot it from the Venom and it blew up dealing damage all around own forces (like he cares... )...

Last test game next week, in the tournament, i´ll try to make a video pregame/after game and my thoughts after the tournament.

- LV

Still trying one change (i said i was 98% ready dammit! )...

Swapping the 10 man squad to a 5 man and some upgrades from HQ2 to a Venom...

HQ2: Archon (70) Splinter Pistol Venom Blade (2)
Troop3:  5 Kabalites (30) Blaster (17)
Dedicated Transport3: Venom (55) Splinter Rifle Splinter Cannon (10) [65]

I think this will give me some mobilty and some T5 wounds, before they can get to the juicy squishy center. I´ll give away one lance shot, but i think this way might be better, any input?

I´ll try this next Tuesday...

- LV

It's really strange that your TO has ruled that you have to use both a Succubus and a Haemonculus. The rule states "choose up to one Haemonculus and up to one Succubus from your army" You don't have to have both, the "up to" would be completely pointless otherwise. Seems a bit unfair tbh.

Yeah. That´s in the ETC (European ITC) rules package. Well, i´m coping with it AND might be changing the list again...if the FLGC has Razorwing, i´m going to get one today (to complete the Air Wing) and make some adjustments...i´ll let you know, if i get it

- LV

Here´s the final list:

Battalion Detachment <Kabal of the Obsidian Rose>
HQ1: Archon (70) Blast Pistol (10) Huskblade (6)
The Armor of Misery Warlord (Archon) Hatred Eternal [86]
HQ2: Archon (70) Splinter Pistol Venom Blade (2) [72]

Troop1:  5 Kabalites (30) Blaster (17) [47]
Troop2:  5 Kabalites (30) Blaster (17) [47]
Troop3:  5 Kabalites (30) Blaster (17) [47]

Elite1: 5 Mandrake        [80]

Dedicated Transport1: Venom (55) 2 Splinter Cannon (20) [75]
Dedicated Transport2: Venom (55) 2 Splinter Cannon (20) [75]
Dedicated Transport3: Venom (55) 2 Splinter Cannon (20) [75]

Total: [604]

Spearhead Detachment <Prophets of Flesh>
HQ1: Haemonculus (70) Agoniser (4) Splinter Pistol (0)    [74]

Elite1: 5 Grotesques (175) Flesh Gauntlet (15) Monstrous cleaver            [175]            
Elite2: 3 Grotesques (105) Flesh Gauntlet (15) Monstrous cleaver            [105]

HS1:  Talos (75) 2 Macro-Scalpel (8 ) 2 x Splinter Cannon (20) [103]
        Talos (75) 2 Macro-Scalpel (8 ) 2 x Haywire blaster (16) [99]

HS2:  Talos (75) 2 Macro-Scalpel (8 ) 2 x Splinter Cannon (20) [103]
        Talos (75) 2 Macro-Scalpel (8 ) Stinger Pod (15)   [98]

HS2:  Talos (75) 2 Macro-Scalpel (8 ) 2 x Heat Lance (24) [107]
        Talos (75) 2 Macro-Scalpel (8 ) 2 x Heat Lance (24) [107]

Total: [971]

Air Wing Detachment <Kabal of the Obsidian Rose>
Flyer1 : Razorwing Jetfighter (105) 2 Dark Lance (40) T.Splinter Rifle           [145]
Flyer2 : Razorwing Jetfighter (105) 2 Dark Lance (40) T.Splinter Rifle           [145]
Flyer3 : Razorwing Jetfighter (105) 2 Disintegrator Cannon (30) T.Splinter Rifle   [135]
Total: [425]

10 CP´s, switched Grots for 5 & 3 men units, in need, i´ll leave the 3 men unit babysit backline object while other DS´s. Tomorrow´s the last test game, i´ll inform how it went!

- LV

I do not see how you can win against a ranged army like Tau, G.I, Eldars, Dark Eldars and even Tyranids list... You lack firepower for me and if the map is not at your advantage, your Talos might not arrive in melee.

Well, i swapped 7 Dark Lances to 4 + 3d6 missiles plus 6-12 + 6-12 poison shots, while Ravagers turned in to Razorwings + Venom and i downsized the one Warrior unit, i can live with that. I will see today, was the trade on point or not.

So...the last test game is in and....a wipeout victory. I went against Wulfen, Stormfang, Björn, Long Fangs, Razorbacks, Grey Hunters and Wolf riders. At first, he scored a HUGE point lead and after the first couple of turn he was up like 8-3...but then the firepower of the planes and Venoms started to kick in...I know, that the difficulty level is going to be on the "tad" higher level at the event, but i think i got the army now in good shape. Three Grots were left on the back objective and the 5 DS´d on his objective. Talos disposed a lot of stuff in the midfield and yeah, 2 out of the 3 Talos killed exploaded . Archon Gravon killed some dude (with the help of 2nd in command, Venom blade is actually great on him!) on Wolf mount and was leading the "let´s all kill Björn" -phase in the end...

Only thing, i GOTTA remember is, that that one darn Venom has only a Cannon and a rifle...

- LV

ps. Wish me painfully joyful hunting this coming weekend...

So...i didn´t get where my  target was,in the upper half of the tournament final score table, but lessons were learned...i was 19/22

Lessons learned :
1. EVERY opponent´s Warlord trait was some kind of "harvest some CP´s", food for thought...
2. Super Heavies ruin the game for me. Not just the fact, that they score points by killing s***, but they also take the fun out too. I understand, that in the tournament they are a must, but i will NEVER play a casual game against them anymore. Unless i´m bringing two Wraithknights too --> takes the fun out
3. I really can´t roll 4+/6+ to save my goddam models...
4. Zen mode. I still managed NOT to murder my dice/rage quit/flip the table ( i might get a "little" annoyed, especially when drinking an energy drink), when my dice decided not to roll well (see previous lesson).
5. When there´s a right opponent, even a loss is fun. All my opponents knew their stuff and i managed to recruit an extra player for out FLGC playing crew. Nice.

Enough pondering, on to the games themselves!
1. Against 2 Knights and IG harvesting the CP´s (what else, right? )
I lost the game 20-0. Was kinda gutted, because i actually had a good amount of points, but the game went on to turn 6 and he shot my Kabalites off an objective and managed to kill the Haemie in hiding = wipeout...LOS blocking doesn´t mean jack, when you got Knights and their "i don´t need to see you, pim, your dead" -missiles.
2. Civil War! Went against an Archon with Tantalus, Airwing with bomber, loads of Kabalites and Ravagers and Wyches.
Victory 12-8! Most fun game of the day, we were laughing in the end, that at least Dark Kin won . I really want a Tantalus. He had a big blob of Wyches and a Succubus inside and was dealing some damage . My DS´s worked and the duel of The Archons was hilarious, both dropped the Shadowfield from another with the first damage roll! Really nice game and we were already contemplating joining forces for the next tag team tournament...
3. I had a Tau opponent with Suits and Riptides basically. Best game of the tournament points wise, i won 14-6. My fliers were shot down pretty early, but the Grots and Talos dished proper damage (at least poison still wounded on 4+, because Monsters...) Really nice game and was on a success high while the Saturday was over.
4. I was in about middle (my target) in the scoreboard, but that also meant tougher opponents. Another IG harvesting farm with a Shadowsword plus three Grand daddy Dreadknights was the advesary. I lost 16-4 and had only my 2nd in command alive from my whole army, so i was happy to score those points. The problem in this wasn´t so much the Shadowsword, but the damn DK´s...all weapons dealt d3 damage and they  are beasts in CC too,so Talos were not around long. SS did drop Venoms and Grots left and right and his couple of Manticores actually did a number on my fliers (of course SS helped) on turn one. Again the Super Heavy really hampered my plans, because you can´t even tie up those in CC.
5. Last game and i had the worst pairing. Could have an opponent like with Space Wolves, but no. An ETC player with a Tau army he´s going to take to the ETC games next weekend...so yeah...he told me in turn 1, that his list was the counter for the Talos bomb lists...so...20-0 defeat. He had Riptides, and suits and loads of some shooty vehicles in one big blob shooting stuff outta table. It was done in 1.5h. Wipeout.

Summa summarum, 40/110 points gathered (there was 100 from the games max and 10 from time usage to be gathered, i got 30 from games + 10 from time), below what i expected, but it was still a positive experience. I think had the first game ended on turn 5 and better pairing on the last, i could have made my goal, but that´s the hindsight there, no need for it really.

What worked:

- Grots.  I really like the 5 and 3 squads. Those 3 did exellent job securing my own end in all of the games and the 5 DS´d in every one.
- Planes, no Ravagers. I loved the versatility, poison for the soft targets, S7 missiles to the monsters or vehicles as the bigger weapons too. Hard to hit, so yeah. They don´t score, but that didn´t come in to play in any games.
- Three Venoms. Mobilty. Enough said.
- Venom blade for the 2nd in Command.

What didn´t:

- Pains to say, but Talos. Almost everyone had some kind of counter already, so maybe the Grots in bigger blobs or Talos in three in each unit?
- (Situational) Mandrakes. It´s a dice game, but i rolled maybe two mortal wounds in shooting in five games. Thay did kill the WL in game 4, but that´s all they wrote. Maybe one unit is not enough?
- Vexator mask has been nerfed, learned that in the first days morning...

I will post a link here, when i get the video recap up to my Youtube-channel.

- LV

When you say the mask has been nerfed what do you mean, in what way? I haven't heard this yet.

Sent from Topic'it App

They only block overwatch and if someone charges you, they are treated as not charged. You can´t make some unit always go last anymore... This is ITC if i understood it correctly, NOT GW!

Here´s the link i promised :

https://youtu.be/2Yafcd63IUw

- LV

Ah I see, thanks for the info

Sent from Topic'it App

I am sorry about your loss.

I never understood the "Talos" thing right now. People seem to enjoy Talos but I do not and do not use them in tournaments (Tau's just wreck them without a sweat). Bad rolls and 7 wounds is gone and I still feel they are getting useless if the deployment zones are far. They can move fast, but not fast enough to be in range. I always said that T6-7 Multi-wound models tend to die too fast, the only boon Talos have is that they have a 4++ invuln save and 6+++ but hell, 7 wounds can go down pretty fast too and it hurts. I've seen friends whine against Tau and god knows there are a lot of Tau players or multi-wound weapons nowadays.

I would say, focus on what we do best: shooting and the MEta is a shooting Meta anyway.


You need Haywire now with IK and fortunately we are one of a few armies that can deal with IK.


Anyway, I'll say that my zone ban Titanic units (I hate this kind of unit anyway) and I think everyone should ban those because 1: its not meant to be on the table of this size, 2/ Titanic units with 4 or 5++ invulnerables are completely unbalanced (or better). But hell, people are lazy and like to avoid thinking or use tactics... I've seen so many players that just do not have any strategies when building an army and then play with 3-5 miniatures "as it is easy to sit and fire". If you want to play Titanic, play Armaggedon games or play a Titanic Kill Team version but not 40K... They are just yet starting to ruin the game like they did with 7th edition, the firepower and weapon's range are already a problem and will get worse as they just upgrade armies instead of toning the whole thing down.

Thanks.

I completely agree. I think Knights and such should stay in Apo games. I´m ok with Lord Of War´s like Armigers or Guillyman (altough he is too good of a buffman...), but we should have Vect as Lord of War too. That would be awesome

First thing I would be tempted to do is combine the Mandrake units into one, and move it over into the Coven detachment to make it a vanguard rather than spearhead, which would allow you to combine the Talos into two units of 3 for maximal stratagem efficiency.

Yeah, i noticed i had too many drops in the tournament. That´s a good idea.

- LV