Prophets of Flesh

Hey Guys,

we had a game Yesterday and allot of discussions. I played Prophets of Flesh. Raiders and Venoms. In every Battlereport and ITC i know that everyone plays that Venoms and Raiders get the 4++.

My opponent wanted to see the rule in the Codex but we did not find it...

The rule says all Units with the Keyword "Insensible to Pain" get a 4++.
Raider and Venoms dont have this Keyword, they got Nightshield 5++. If WE take this words then there is no 4++ for them...

But why everyone plays it this way? Is there a rule i did Not find? If yes where can i find it?

Greetings

Pretty sure the Prophets of Flesh obsession is a boost to the "insensible to pain" roll, not any invul save. So venoms and raiders would remain at 5++. They do have a 4+ armour. Alternatively they benefit from the Heamonculus toughness buff, or used too. Not sure if that's been changed? I don't have my book to hand to make sure.
But in short, I've never see anyone making 4++ invuls for PoF Coven transports or seen it discussed before now.

I agree with yellabelly.

certainly that's the way I've been playing it, and haven't seen others doing otherwise (not to say that they aren't, just that I haven't seen it)

In fact, I quite often see people (and I do as well) play their venoms and raiders as blackheart to get the feel no pain roll for them as an incremental "save" on top of the invul save.

Mumakil wrote:

But why everyone plays it this way?

Because they are cheating.
I had a long discussion with a person who thought Urien got a 3++ invul.
I showed him where the buff helps "insensible to pain" making it a 4++, same as his clone field.
He refused to accept it.

Ugh.

Thats a pretty grave mistake
the prophets obsession states that their insensible to pain ability is increased to a 4++
venoms and raiders do not have this ability and therefore remain on their 5++
i dont know how you can misread that and would argue intentionally cheating

To be honest, I've never played it that way (4++ for vehicles) and never played against anyone playing it that way. Where is this happening?

Count Adhemar wrote:

To be honest, I've never played it that way (4++ for vehicles) and never played against anyone playing it that way.

Same.


Could it be the result of people confusing the Haemonculus aura (which does work on Coven vehicles) with the PoF bonus (which doesn't)?

I would say that's possible, it could also be people assuming that once a vehicle gains the "coven" keyword (by being in a coven detachment) they suddenly have insensible to pain, as that rule is basically part and parcel to the coven, and not taking a closer look at the rules and finding that coven vehicles don't actually get "insensible to pain"

Honestly I don't see how people could make this mistake, it's very clearly stated only in the entries for the proper coven units (heamonculus, wracks, grots, talos and cronos), that they have the insensible to pain rule. Nothing else has it, therefore you don't get the invul save increase. I suspect whoever was playing the rule as +4 invul for vehicles just wanted an extra advantage.