DE Apocalypse Datasheets

So the apocalypse datasheets are all up on the apoc site: https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/datasheets/

It's a little difficult to fully analyze which units are good and bad just yet, but I do have a few thoughts just by looking around at other army's datasheets.

Splinter weapons are actually the good anti-personnel weapons they should be. Wounding on 5+ on a d12 is actually fairly solid for your basic infantry weapon. For some context, bolters are a 7+. However, kabalites have no access at all to special weapons, only our heavy weapons. I thought that might be a mistake, but looking at other factions it probably isn't. Basic marine squads as well only get heavy weapons, not special. From a modeling perspective that's a bit of a pain, I don't want to have to leave all my blaster kabalites at home for a big apoc game when I need all my models.

With the exception of talosi and archon's with shadowfieds active, we won't be getting saves against large blasts often. If I understand the blast system correctly, every large blast marker can only be saved on a d6, so with the majority of our army having saves worse than 6+ they won't get a save at all. Hard to say how that works out just yet, but seems a bit painful.

Disintegrator cannons won't be the great all round weapon they are in normal 40k. They have the reverse profile of a dark lance, wounding infantry on a +5, and vehicles on a 10+. They have the same number of shots as a dark lance, so spamming them against vehicles won't really help. For anti-tank I think we'll really be down to relying on scourges with haywire/darklight, talos with haywire and any vehicle with a dark lance. I'm unsure how warriors are going to fit into the equation now, venom spam warriors might be difficult because you need a 10 man squad for a single heavy weapon.

All very early thoughts however, without the full rulebook and a look at all our command assets it's hard to say what's great.

I'm curious about the lack of sub faction rules. From the looks of it, we could build a brigade of Drukhari with all three sub factions. That could make a lot more opportunities.

Myrvn wrote:

I'm curious about the lack of sub faction rules. From the looks of it, we could build a brigade of Drukhari with all three sub factions. That could make a lot more opportunities.

I have a suspicion that they'll be in the main Apocalypse rulebook.

Yeah, I guess that could be. I'll wait and see what the Drukhari Faction Focus looks like.

The Salamanders rules for Space Marines made it look to me like small arms (including the odd blaster, shredder, etc) are all just considered to be the same thing, so you won't have to remodel your minis, assuming that's correct.

I could be totally missing something, though.

Did anything explain the number of shots?

A Dark Lance has one A, so I assume a Ravager shooting three Dark Lances would have 3 shots.

However, there are other guns marked User, 1, 2x for the number of attacks. I'm assuming (a terrible idea) that the 2x would be the unit A multiples by the factor. Does that sound right?

They basically made DC anti infantry and DL anti tank, i like it a lot.

And i'm pretty sure the number of weapons is the number of attacks of that profile, so 3 DL is 3 shots, b.c the Raider is the same but has 1 DL/DC.

Also about ht esaves, just b.c you lots your save doesnt mean the unit is dead, it takes multi blast markers/wound counters to kill off most units (1/2 the wounds makes them 1/2 as powerful, full wounds kills them from what i can see) so 20 models has effectively 4 wounds, so they get 4 chances to save before they are "dead".

I'm curious if the units with multiple squad numbers actually degrade or not. Does a 20 Wych squad just stay at 20 until dead?

It has 1/2 stats and full, it only degrades once. Check the video out on "How to play" via APoc website, its about 10min long if i remember.

Edit:
https://warhammer40000.com/apocalypse/

Oh ok. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to watch the video.

It looks like we are truly a death by a thousand cuts army in Apoc. We have zero Destroyer weapons, but more reliably than other armies can put small blast markers down on whatever we need in bulk.

Still killing a Full Custodes squad +3 saves on d12's vs small blast 6 wounds is rough.

on the Negative side, No Deck manipulation inherent on units.

I'm kinda hoping our deck manipulation comes from our deck ... like command asset "cunning manipulation: choose any command asset from your deck and pick a unit within 12" of this model, that unit can use both commands this turn" or something like that

Archon_91 wrote:

I'm kinda hoping our deck manipulation comes from our deck ... like command asset "cunning manipulation: choose any command asset from your deck and pick a unit within 12" of this model, that unit can use both commands this turn" or something like that

But compare that to every farseer Warlord every turn gets to pick a card and add it to your hand. 5 warlord farseers 5 chosen cards from your deck a turn to play.

Dalamar wrote:

But compare that to every farseer Warlord every turn gets to pick a card and add it to your hand.  5 warlord farseers 5 chosen cards from your deck a turn to play.

uhhh not quite... they can do that once per battle per farseer that's a warlord. Still strong sure especially for early game combos but not game breaking.

I doubt that there will be specific subfaction rules, in the same sense as subfactions have rules in 40k. However, certain command cards are only useable in your deck if you have units with the correct subfaction keywords in your army.

It looks like several units that are pretty useless in 40k will be useful here. Offhand, beasts look pretty good to me. The Ur-gul actually looks like a decent option as far as Court model go (might be the only decent option, aside from maybe the Sslyth).

I'm *really* hoping that either the 'open-topped' rule allows warlords who are embarked to use their command aura (either that, or that commanders are all simply allowed to use command auras while embarked). That is the one piece of info that I really need to know before going all-in on Apoc.

Is there a different fall back rule for Apoc and does moving into combat with an enemy unit equate to charging? If no to either, Hellions just got turbo fast falling back at 28" into combat potentially without overwatch (if that's a thing in Apoc aswell)

We dont know yet. But we do know the datasheet rules

ABILITIES
Hit and Run: Whilst this unit Falls Back, double its Move characteristic. When this unit Falls Back,
it can finish that Move action in base contact with enemy models.

I don't believe that overwatch fire is a thing in Apoc. However, as I understand from the 'how to play' video, a unit that is in BtB with enemies can still shoot when activated, but fires at a penalty to hit.

Im honestly liking the SAP and SAT, i really hold that becomes a thing in 9th. Right now the with the damage chart and how AP works there is no Anti-tank weapons anymore. Just look at DL vs DC, a DC is better than DL vs most tanks i the game. And Blasters are worst against MC than just mass poison due to cost of units + transport + the weapon. There are some fundamental problems with 8th. Apoc seems to be doing things differently, and i hope it works out.

At least Blasters in Apoc are 5+ (on a D12) they feel good now.

addendum: It looks like, judging from the Tau faction focus, that if you order a detachment to do 'Aimed Fire', and they get charged before they can carry out that order, then they won't be able to shoot, since the Tau 'For the Greater Good' ability says that it allows such a unit to shoot (but at a -1 to hit penalty).

I notice the Archon has no ranged weapons. You might think an all-out battle would be a good place to equip yourself with a decent ranged weapon, but apparently even a pistol is asking too much. Presumably he plans to run forward and attack Warhound Titans with his Huskblade.

Also, the weapon stats confuse the hell out of me. For example, Yvraine's weapon has an identical profile to a Huskblade. However, in Apocalypse, it's much worse at wounding armour (10+ compared to 8+ for a Huskblade).

Anyway, weirdness aside, I'm hoping there's more to the game than it looks here. I get that it needs to be streamlined but it just doesn't seem like there's much to it beyond point and click. Hope I'm wrong.

It would probably be just as silly for an archon to try to kill a warhound titan with a pistol.


Alternating activations is going to make tactics *very* different from standard 40k. Then there is the deckbuilding aspect.

PFI wrote:

Dalamar wrote:

But compare that to every farseer Warlord every turn gets to pick a card and add it to your hand.  5 warlord farseers 5 chosen cards from your deck a turn to play.

uhhh not quite... they can do that once per battle per farseer that's a warlord. Still strong sure especially for early game combos but not game breaking.

Wow totally missed the once per battle part, my bad

krayd wrote:

It would probably be just as silly for an archon to try to kill a warhound titan with a pistol.

I mean, he could always take a Blaster.

Not ideal, sure, but it would let him contribute without having to rush into melee.

Im hoping for a deck of upgrades like how X-wing has. But not sure if GW will ever do that.... would be a good idea for Apoc.