Sneak Peek at New Drukhari Codex

hekatrixxy wrote:

It will be interesting to see how it all comes together once everything is revealed.

Indeed!

Especially interested in seeing the changes to the poison rule.
Might be nothing significant, but hopefully they’ve added something meaningful!

Splinter rifles still complete garbage, Splinter pistols still not worth the paper they're printed on, Agonisers still just massage-kits. Blasters and Blast Pistols didn't get the improved damage that Dark Lances did.

Really not impressed so far.

It does, however, meet my exceedingly low expectations.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Agonisers still just massage-kits.

Yeah, this is why I feel seeing the poison rule will be needed.
Generally a high strength has (nearly) always been preferable, and with the +1S on powerswords poison really needs to bring something extra (some sort of added dmg/Dmg-shenanigans, for instance) to the table in order to compete. Even with the much appreciated -3AP. (at least, that’s what I’m thinking)

As base statline, they're pretty good. It's interesting that Blaster and Blast Pistols didn't get any rework. Of course they shouldn't have been D3+3,  we can field A LOT of these guns. Making them so reliable would have been broken.
So maybe...all in all, D6 still fine.

It's interesting that they're trying to push us onto heavy weapons. DarkLances are huge now and it feels definitely 3rd ed old style spamming Lances feeling which I like.


Keep in mind that these are just BASE stat lines. Obsessions-like rules, aura buffs and stratagems will be the real key of the Codex.
Don't even try to compare with SM wargear anyway. We can easely double the number of guns, and we have more speed of them (which in 9th's tables means a lot). We can't have stronger guns too, when we field likely the double (or more) of them.

Cerve wrote:

As base statline, they're pretty good. It's interesting that Blaster and Blast Pistols didn't get any rework. Of course they shouldn't have been D3+3,  we can field A LOT of these guns. Making them so reliable would have been broken.

I have to disagree.

What you're basically saying is that our infantry should be garbage and we should have to rely on our vehicles for everything.


5 Scourges with 4 Blasters typically cost around the same points as a triple-Lance Ravager (give or take). They have half the wounds, half the range, -2T, and a worse invulnerable save.

Why, then, does their firepower also need to be markedly worse?


I'm sorry but this is the absolute nadir of game design. Long-range weapons on sturdy (by our standards) platforms that can be fired across the table with minimal risk do the most damage, whilst weapons on flimsy platforms that have to get much closer to their targets are rewarded with... worse damage.

Cerve wrote:

Keep in mind that these are just BASE stat lines. Obsessions-like rules, aura buffs and stratagems will be the real key of the Codex.

Stratagems can get buggered, frankly.

As for Obsessions and Auras, I'll believe that they offer meaningful improvements when I see them. Until then, I'll assume the worst because that's what GW has always delivered in the past.

Cerve wrote:

Don't even try to compare with SM wargear anyway. We can easely double the number of guns

Yeah, hence why SM guns tend to have 2-3 times as many shots.

Oh, and then they get to fire them a second time. Just because.

Cerve wrote:

and we have more speed of them

[Citation needed.]

Cerve wrote:

We can't have stronger guns too

Well quite. Truly the game would fall to pieces if anyone was allowed to do anything better than Marines.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

As for Obsessions and Auras, I'll believe that they offer meaningful improvements when I see them. Until then, I'll assume the worst because that's what GW has always delivered in the past.

Flayed Skull, Black Heart, Dark Technomancers, as well as a few others all currently offer very meaningful improvements to offense - we do need to see what obsessions (and auras, and stratagems, and..) look like before we have a good overview of what we're capable of.

Even beyond that these changes look fine. Not exciting, but fine. The increased range on Shredders is good and Dark Lances having a higher expected damage value makes them substantially more useful. S2 on rifles is something I was suspicious of, and we still need to see how the strength values interact with poison before we know what that actually means.

Burnage wrote:

Flayed Skull, Black Heart, Dark Technomancers, as well as a few others all currently offer very meaningful improvements to offense - we do need to see what obsessions (and auras, and stratagems, and..) look like before we have a good overview of what we're capable of.

Flayed Skull offers a somewhat decent improvement, though it mostly amounts to a poor attempt at making up for their inherent shortfalls. e.g. Ignore Cover could easily be replaced by Splinter weapons having AP-1 to begin with.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to Black Heart. A 6+++ does not improve our firepower. Not does +1 to the FNP table.

Dark Technomancers has been repeatedly nerfed and we don't know whether it will even be in the new codex. But even if it is, the Splinter Cannon has lost almost all synergy with it.

A DT Venom used to fire 12 D2 shots that wounded on 3s.

Now it fires 6 AP-1 D3 shots that wound on 3s.

Even if you like the second profile better, what are you even firing them at?

I hate that they made the Splinter Cannon Heavy. It just doesn't fit the playstyle at all. Even if Venoms ignore that and basically turn it into an Assault weapon, it's basically nonsensical to take one on 10 man squads in Raiders. Shredders with blast or a minimum amount of shots around 3 would have been nice. Weaponry of one of the most advanced races in the galaxy shouldn't be that random imho.
They can keep their +1 A on Kabalite Warriors. Who cares? They shouldn't be in CC in the first place.
I can live with blast pistols not getting the same damage as Darl Lances, but maybe flat 3 dmg for them and D3+3 for Blasters would have been nice.

I, too, worry about the possible implications of what seems like a push towards heavy weaponry and increased distance between our units and the enemy. Here's hoping that a reveal of a major improvement to poison is yet to come.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Burnage wrote:

Flayed Skull, Black Heart, Dark Technomancers, as well as a few others all currently offer very meaningful improvements to offense - we do need to see what obsessions (and auras, and stratagems, and..) look like before we have a good overview of what we're capable of.

Flayed Skull offers a somewhat decent improvement, though it mostly amounts to a poor attempt at making up for their inherent shortfalls. e.g. Ignore Cover could easily be replaced by Splinter weapons having AP-1 to begin with.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to Black Heart. A 6+++ does not improve our firepower. Not does +1 to the FNP table.

Dark Technomancers has been repeatedly nerfed and we don't know whether it will even be in the new codex. But even if it is, the Splinter Cannon has lost almost all synergy with it.

A DT Venom used to fire 12 D2 shots that wounded on 3s.

Now it fires 6 AP-1 D3 shots that wound on 3s.

Even if you like the second profile better, what are you even firing them at?

Gravis marines.

Also, apologies, when I think of "Black Heart" in my head I include the Writ - and that was a substantial buff to Ravager offense.

Burnage wrote:

Also, apologies, when I think of "Black Heart" in my head I include the Writ - and that was a substantial buff to Ravager offense.

Ah, I see. Fair enough, then, though this does go into something else I wanted to say:


Even if one or two of our Kabal/Cult/Coven subfactions offer meaningful improvements to our basic weapons, that shouldn't be the point of subfactions. Subfactions (at least to my mind) should be about helping you realise a particular playstyle - not providing basic, functional elements for your army.

Other factions don't need to take particular subfactions just to make their basic weapons vaguely functional.

This is like if Bolters were Heavy 1 S1 and Heavy Bolters S2 AP0 D1, unless SM are ultramarines, in which case those weapons are allowed to have worthwhile statlines.

It's the same issue with our characters, where you basically need to give them all a Relic and Warlord Trait just to get them up to par with those of other races. Whereas every other faction has characters that function fine on their own, and can use Warlord Traits/Relics to make them more specialised in a particular role or give them some other marked improvement (or, hell, something fun or flavourful).

my point is, we shouldn't have to jump through hoops just to get weapons that don't hit like a damp sock.

In other news Wychs are getting 3 attacks base and -1 AP, which is fantastic.

Huh. Points et at. notwithstanding, Wyches actually look pretty decent.

Also, are those plasma grenades or are Haywire grenades back?

I really hope their Hekatarii Blades still give them +1 A, otherwise the AP is effectively the only change there.

Soulless Samurai wrote:

Also, are those plasma grenades or are Haywire grenades back?

Haywire grenades would be nice, but I doubt they'll return. Especially not as the only grenade option.

I wonder what the Succubus profile will be. I'd like to see more attacks for her. Having fewer than an Archon just doesn't make any sense.

Hydra gauntlets and impaler look good.

I always thought Wyches should have loads of attacks.

+1A base on Wyches does at least make sense, although as @red_head pointed out, let's hope they haven't just taken it off the Hekatarii blade, making it a wash.

Okay, I stand corrected then. Thanks, Burnage.

Hydra Gauntlets also look tasty if they keep their re-roll wounds rule.

sweetbacon wrote:

It looks like the Hekatari Blade, Impaler, and Razor Flails are also poison now which is pretty decent as well.

Not necessarily, that star is used in other datasheets just to indicate that the weapon uses the Strength of the wielder.

As an aside, it always puzzled me that you could take half of the Shardnet and Impailer, but not just have a single Hydra Gauntlet or Razorflail.

Generally with the exception of the dark lance which we all knew was going to change, nothing revealed so far truly impresses me, not even the wyches...
Might just be me and my superhuman pessimism but if the aforementioned rumors about no customisation are true as well we are headed towards the first major letdown of the 9th edition codexes...

Yeah, I have to agree. Wych changes are looking decent, but the lack of AP on our most common infantry weapon (the splinter rifle) has me worried. I’m still reserving judgment until we get the full picture but so far I’m not seeing anything that answers the question of “how do we stand a chance against Dark Angels?”

DevilDoll wrote:

Might just be me and my superhuman pessimism but if the aforementioned rumors about no customisation are true as well we are headed towards the first major letdown of the 9th edition codexes...

Wait, no customisation?
I haven't really heard or read anything about that, but I have seen a lot of pre-made SM Captain options. Is the same or something similar on the horizon for us? I haven't read a lot of this thread so I don't know on which of the pages it was stated. Could you enlighten me?

Previous page, 10.
A rumor about cons and pros

red_head wrote:

I really hope their Hekatarii Blades still give them +1 A, otherwise the AP is effectively the only change there.

I think this is a key point.
Almost all the wyche weapons gave extra attacks if equipped so I wouldn't be shocked if this is just to roll that into the base profile.

However, these changes still look good to me. I'm excited to see how obsessions affect things and if we can reliably get wyches into combat without them all being shot to death. If so they are looking potentially far better than kabalites.

red_head wrote:

DevilDoll wrote:

Might just be me and my superhuman pessimism but if the aforementioned rumors about no customisation are true as well we are headed towards the first major letdown of the 9th edition codexes...

Wait, no customisation?
I haven't really heard or read anything about that, but I have seen a lot of pre-made SM Captain options. Is the same or something similar on the horizon for us? I haven't read a lot of this thread so I don't know on which of the pages it was stated. Could you enlighten me?

I think he's referring to some very vague rumours which indicated "no customisable Archon".

But it didn't elaborate on that (or indeed on anything else) so there's not really much to go on.

To call those rumors vague is an insult to the concept of ambiguity