Talos Durability- Why new Artists of the Flesh are better than old Prophets of Flesh

mynamelegend wrote:

CptMetal wrote:

Someone pointed out that you can put 5 wracks and 3 Grots in a raider.
Totaling 5 liquifier.

Personally, I hate the idea of Liquifiers on Grots - giving up AP-2 Damage 2 AND an extra attack in return for something that Wracks are a better platform for point-for-point anyway is quite the ask.

Especially since the Wracks are bringing enough poisoned AP-1 melee to outdo grots stuck with the Flesh Gauntlet against most targets anyway.
If you're looking to lean in on Liquifiers in Raiders, I don't see a reason to not go DT Wracks.

Beacuse 2x5 Wracks are 2 Lique, where 5Wracks+3Grots are 5.

That's the highest number of liquefator you can stuck in a single Raider.

Cerve wrote:

Beacuse 2x5 Wracks are 2 Lique, where 5Wracks+3Grots are 5.

That's the highest number of liquefator you can stuck in a single Raider.

It's true that 5+3 is the highest number, but you forget - the Acothyst can take a Liquifier gun too. After all, how else would 3 liquifiers on the grots + a 5-man wrack squad equal 5?

2x5 wracks is 4d6 shots - and giving up that one singular Liquifier saves you 60 points.

mynamelegend wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Beacuse 2x5 Wracks are 2 Lique, where 5Wracks+3Grots are 5.

That's the highest number of liquefator you can stuck in a single Raider.

It's true that 5+3 is the highest number, but you forget - the Acothyst can take a Liquifier gun too. After all, how else would 3 liquifiers on the grots + a 5-man wrack squad equal 5?

2x5 wracks is 4d6 shots - and giving up that one singular Liquifier saves you 60 points.

I don't forget that, I just take it in account.

Cerve wrote:

mynamelegend wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Beacuse 2x5 Wracks are 2 Lique, where 5Wracks+3Grots are 5.

That's the highest number of liquefator you can stuck in a single Raider.

It's true that 5+3 is the highest number, but you forget - the Acothyst can take a Liquifier gun too. After all, how else would 3 liquifiers on the grots + a 5-man wrack squad equal 5?

2x5 wracks is 4d6 shots - and giving up that one singular Liquifier saves you 60 points.

I don't forget that, I just take it in account.

Yet you don't seem to have taken it into account at all.

2 x 5 wracks is 4 liquifiers for 120 points
1 x 5 wracks plus 3 grots is 5 liquifiers for 195 points

75 points is a lot for one liquifier!

Count Adhemar wrote:

Cerve wrote:

mynamelegend wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Beacuse 2x5 Wracks are 2 Lique, where 5Wracks+3Grots are 5.

That's the highest number of liquefator you can stuck in a single Raider.

It's true that 5+3 is the highest number, but you forget - the Acothyst can take a Liquifier gun too. After all, how else would 3 liquifiers on the grots + a 5-man wrack squad equal 5?

2x5 wracks is 4d6 shots - and giving up that one singular Liquifier saves you 60 points.

I don't forget that, I just take it in account.

Yet you don't seem to have taken it into account at all.

2 x 5 wracks is 4 liquifiers for 120 points
1 x 5 wracks plus 3 grots is 5 liquifiers for 195 points

75 points is a lot for one liquifier!

But you get 3 grots to punch stuff when you're shot down.

CptMetal wrote:

Count Adhemar wrote:

Cerve wrote:

mynamelegend wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Beacuse 2x5 Wracks are 2 Lique, where 5Wracks+3Grots are 5.

That's the highest number of liquefator you can stuck in a single Raider.

It's true that 5+3 is the highest number, but you forget - the Acothyst can take a Liquifier gun too. After all, how else would 3 liquifiers on the grots + a 5-man wrack squad equal 5?

2x5 wracks is 4d6 shots - and giving up that one singular Liquifier saves you 60 points.

I don't forget that, I just take it in account.

Yet you don't seem to have taken it into account at all.

2 x 5 wracks is 4 liquifiers for 120 points
1 x 5 wracks plus 3 grots is 5 liquifiers for 195 points

75 points is a lot for one liquifier!

But you get 3 grots to punch stuff when you're shot down.

That's very true and if you are concerned with that then by all means take the grots. Personally I'll try to keep the points down with just wracks and use them for more punch elsewhere in my army.

Count Adhemar wrote:

Cerve wrote:

mynamelegend wrote:

Cerve wrote:

Beacuse 2x5 Wracks are 2 Lique, where 5Wracks+3Grots are 5.

That's the highest number of liquefator you can stuck in a single Raider.

It's true that 5+3 is the highest number, but you forget - the Acothyst can take a Liquifier gun too. After all, how else would 3 liquifiers on the grots + a 5-man wrack squad equal 5?

2x5 wracks is 4d6 shots - and giving up that one singular Liquifier saves you 60 points.

I don't forget that, I just take it in account.

Yet you don't seem to have taken it into account at all.

2 x 5 wracks is 4 liquifiers for 120 points
1 x 5 wracks plus 3 grots is 5 liquifiers for 195 points

75 points is a lot for one liquifier!

3 Grots are not just "3 liquefiers". I get toughness, I get punch, I get melee's MWs.


But I have to say that, if I deepstrike this Raider, I would love to have all the alpha strike I can get. So yes, in this scenario, the fifth liquefier could value 75 points for me.

Another good thing that I got (of course I'm not the only one I guess, but)..
I was looking for the best Obsession for Talos. While DT makes them super shooty, and Artists of the Flesh makes them more durable, I got that DarkCreed makes them more reliable all around. Because the best setting now is HeatLances, Injectors, Gauntlet:
-Lances can snipe characters with the stratagem;
-Injectors are able to hit on 2+ since T1 against almost everything, thanks for their LD match;
-Gauntlet hits on 3+ since T1 (see step 1), and they hit on 2+ on T3 because you get +2 and -1 to hit, which makes them pretty scary on melee!

Damn, I love this Obsession

Isn't it a problem that 9th edition locks us at +1/-1 max. modifiers? Can the PfP bonus and the DC bonus actually add up?

Kinnay wrote:

Isn't it a problem that 9th edition locks us at +1/-1 max. modifiers? Can the PfP bonus and the DC bonus actually add up?

Only when something give a -1 to hit. then you are still at +1 to hit.

Cerve wrote:

DarkCreed makes them more reliable all around.

Agreed. this loadout kiks bottoms. +1 tp hit against almost everything (except necrons (until you show them the grizzliest of your trophis)) helps a lot. Even my Grotesques were extremly dangerous.

Wow, that's a really good loadout for Talos, I love it. I consider the Artists of the Flesh route a pair of training wheels to help learn the units and what kind of damage they can take, but a more experienced player can certainly make use of the Dark Creed obsession to great effect.

Running the numbers on a Talos unit easily impaling Lelith with syringes is both funny and sad at the same time.

Kinnay wrote:

Isn't it a problem that 9th edition locks us at +1/-1 max. modifiers? Can the PfP bonus and the DC bonus actually add up?

You can add all the modifiers you want, but at the end you will be limited at +1/-1 from your initial WS.

That means you can have +3 and -4=-1 ok
+3-1=-2 not ok, turns on -1
+2-0=2 not ok, turns on +1
+2-1=+1 ok

Yeah multiple buffs still works when you have some malus. The final results must be only +1/-1 tho.

So because Talos have a -1 to hit weapon, +2 to hit still works.

I also think Dark Creed looks interesting, but sadly couldn't play any game with the new codex yet to try it.

[quote="Cerve"]

Kinnay wrote:

You can add all the modifiers you want, but at the end you will be limited at +1/-1 from your initial WS.

You are limited at +1/-1 from your to hit roll. I am sure you meant it this way but the limit is on modifiers to the hit roll, everything manipulating the WS or BS characteristic is basically on top of that as it does not modify the roll, it modifies the target value. Not relevant here but there are cases in which the difference matters. Just wanted to mention it as we also have modifiers to the characteristics in the book, the combat drug +1 WS still makes a Succubus immune to any to hit modifiers.

The +1 to hit for dark creed is only in melee. They will already hit on 2's on turn 3. But I do think that DT with twin liquifiers looks good.

Vailex wrote:

The +1 to hit for dark creed is only in melee.  They will already hit on 2's on turn 3.  But I do think that DT with twin liquifiers looks good.

The Gauntlet gives -1 to hit on melee, that's why DarkCreed is good with them.