Precision Blows Vs. Disgustingly resilient

I have been trying to sort out how this actually works and I understand that by RAW Precision Blows is focused on the weapon's profile, not the attack being used, but I'm still confused as that seams like a really specific oversight if PB ignores DR simply because of poor wording.

1) So when you make an attack, the attack's damage characteristic is pulled from the weapon profile. DR should kick in and reduce that stat before rolls start. PB only triggers if that attack roll is a 6. Does PB ignore the attack entirely and only care about the weapon itself?

2) If Precision Blows ignores DR, then would this also imply that Dark Lotus Toxin ignores DR or do the two cancel out? DLT does not increase the attack damage, it increases the weapon damage. At what point is it effected, if ever, by DR? Is the key difference simply that PB ignores the entire sequence?

Are there any examples the GW has ruled on to clarify this?

I'm thinking that the wording of the PB would state that the D characteristic of the weapon immediatley causes x mortal wounds before the DR interraction. Apologies for the vagueness as i'm nowhere near my codex at the moment. i recently had a game vs Death guard and think Triptych Whip and PB would work well to get past DR.

DR says, the Damage characteristic is reduced, when an attack is allocated to a unit with DR.
That means, when you declare, your Succubus attacks, the Damage characteristic is down by one.
Ergo: one less MW, when rolling a 6. Well, at least thats my understanding.

Btw, they asked the same at Reddit...

Padaxes wrote:

I'm thinking that the wording of the PB would state that the D characteristic of the weapon immediatley causes x mortal wounds before the DR interraction. Apologies for the vagueness as i'm nowhere near my codex at the moment. i recently had a game vs Death guard and think Triptych Whip and PB would work well to get past DR.

Right, but it's a weird interaction because PB would then retroactively ignore the DR rule. The DR rule is already applied once you've rolled, but that roll is for an attack, not a weapon (strictly speaking). This implies that the two values for weapon damage and attack damage are different things.

I may need to consult the core rules...

Zenotaph wrote:

DR says, the Damage characteristic is reduced, when an attack is allocated to a unit with DR.
That means, when you declare, your Succubus attacks, the Damage characteristic is down by one.
Ergo: one less MW, when rolling a 6. Well, at least thats my understanding.

Btw, they asked the same at Reddit...

This is how I originally read this as well as it makes intrinsic sense, but as pedantic as it may be, the words are different between the two, which is why i was hoping to find a more concrete ruling or faq, but so far no luck.

I reread the core rules and figured out my answer:

Attack allocation (when DR triggers) does not happen until after the wound roll has been completed, thus PB takes effect before DR.

PB bypasses this because it translates the damage directly into mortal wounds after the hit roll step. since DR doesn't effect mortal wounds, DR can't stop this.

How this effects DLT: pretty sure they just cancel out.

Found it! Page 23:

Quote :

-Hit roll (ranged weapon): Roll one D6; hit scored if result equals
or beats attacking model’s BS. Otherwise attack fails.

-Hit roll (melee weapon): Roll one D6; hit scored if result equals
or beats attacking model’s WS. Otherwise attack fails.

-Wound roll: Roll one D6 and compare attack’s S with target’s T
on table to the left. Target wounded if score equals or beats the
required result. Otherwise attack fails.

-Allocate attack: Player commanding target unit selects one
model in that unit. If a model in the unit has already lost
wounds, or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase,
they must select that model.

-Saving throw: Roll one D6 and modify by the attack’s AP. If result
less than the Sv of the selected model, the saving throw is failed
and it suffers damage. Otherwise attack is saved.

-Inflict damage: The selected model loses a number of wounds
equal to the attack’s D.
If a model is destroyed by an attack, any excess damage
inflicted by that attack is lost.
Unmodified hit rolls, wound rolls and saving throws of 1
always fail.
Unmodified hit rolls and wound rolls of 6 always succeed.
Hit and wound rolls cannot be modified by more than -1 or +1.

So when a glaive causes d3 wounds each time you roll a 6 to hit with PB it causes d3 mortal wounds? Seems like a good way to bypass DR.

indeed. it will also bypass other similar effects, like the Mantle of Ophelia from the Sisters of battle.

It would appear your correct, your Percision Blows would only do 1 MW.

I will need to remember this in the future...

From the core rule book "Each mortal wound inflicts 1 point of damage on the target unit, and they are always applied one at a time"

By this rule, your 2MW for hitting on a six are actually 2 separate 1MW, as it is already 1 damage it cannot be reduced.

Dalferon wrote:

From the core rule book "Each mortal wound inflicts 1 point of damage on the target unit, and they are always applied one at a time"

By this rule, your 2MW for hitting on a six are actually 2 separate 1MW, as it is already 1 damage it cannot be reduced.

True, but what I was saying earlier in the post is that that rule doesn't even matter because the phase where DR and similar effects trigger won't even happen when you roll a 6 for PB (the allocation phase where DR triggers gets skipped). Hence the bypass. So either way, you're still dealing 2 MW per 6 on hit with the whip or razorflail combo.